Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Unknown fruit? in Mexico  (Read 952 times)

marklee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 881
    • Chula Vista, California Zone 24 or 10b
    • View Profile
Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« on: November 23, 2018, 07:18:23 PM »
I'm sure someone knows what this is. It is at my friends place in Cabo, Mexico. Thanks.

sytanta

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
    • Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 07:39:49 PM »
Looks pretty much like "Terminalia catappa".

FruitFool

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • san diego, ca, USDA zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 02:11:22 AM »
Yes, its Tropical almond (Terminalia catappa)

FruitFool

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 12:41:59 PM »
Easily germinated and carried over by bats. Fast growing trees and will be a 'pest' in any tropical and subtropical regions.
 About 45+ years ago while visiting a famous Nursery in a Tropical country I commented on this 'Terminalia catappa at that time hardly seen nor heard about in the region that it will spread around easily. And also commented on what they call as 'Singapore cherry' Muntingia calabura ( strawberry tree, Jamaican berry etc.) which was freshly introduced in that area that they will have these trees everywhere in 10 years.
Last year while passing through that area in the tropics i have seen hundreds of those above mentioned trees almost 95% not planted in about 100 miles radius! It is unfortunate to see it in Florida!

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 04:53:48 PM »
Four weeks ago we visited Tulum ruins in Mexico. From the Cancun International Airport all the way to Tulum on road I saw hundreds of trees growing wild in the forests and other dry areas. Some of them are planted even in a nice resort!

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15108
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 06:19:08 PM »
Easily germinated and carried over by bats. Fast growing trees and will be a 'pest' in any tropical and subtropical regions.
 About 45+ years ago while visiting a famous Nursery in a Tropical country I commented on this 'Terminalia catappa at that time hardly seen nor heard about in the region that it will spread around easily. And also commented on what they call as 'Singapore cherry' Muntingia calabura ( strawberry tree, Jamaican berry etc.) which was freshly introduced in that area that they will have these trees everywhere in 10 years.
Last year while passing through that area in the tropics i have seen hundreds of those above mentioned trees almost 95% not planted in about 100 miles radius! It is unfortunate to see it in Florida!
Terminalia catappa is a common tree here growing along the ocean. The seeds float and spread that way. But it is not a problem tree here. The Jamaican cherry here have had it for very many years and the birds we have don't spread it here. Also not a single volunteer seedling under the trees, but they do spread around mother tree by root sprouts.
Oscar

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1079
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 08:35:11 PM »
In Costa Rica it is commonly planted as a shade tree.  It is invasive along the coast, grows huge, and out competes local coastal flora.  Kids eat the small nuts and it is a favorite of the scarlet macaw.
Peter

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 10:51:45 AM »
Oscar. The bats in Hawaii are insectivorous and they DO NOT EAT FRUITS. So your comment from Hawaii about  'Easily germinated and carried over by bats' doesn't relate to what I commented. Please note these North American West Coast Immigrants, the Hoary bats somehow ended up in Hawaii at 2 different times. The first one 10,000 years ago and the recent one about 1000 years ago. This is the only land mammal indigenous to Hawaii.
Your opinion Terminalia catappa seeds are spread through ocean waters is interesting.
Hoary bat food is mainly wasps, beetles, fruit flies and other insects which is helping the fruit trees in Hawaii getting rid of some of these pests. Over 98% of TFF members and clients unfortunately do not have your advantage of having only one species of bat and the insectivorous one.

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 11:27:23 AM »
Oscar. Regarding the Jamaican Cherry (Muntingia calabura): It is termed as a HIGH RISK  plant for invasion in the Hawaii according to the PIER report long time ago. This is in the absence of fruit bats but due to bird disbursement, having many seeds in the fruit, through the gut seeds have higher germination potential etc.
Because of the absence of fruit bats in Hawaii, Terminalia catappa is termed rightly as not invasive in spite of the thousands of miles of ocean floor you have there.

Birricannia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 04:15:25 PM »
Terminalia is an interesting genus, we have a few in Australia, two that I know are Carpenteriae (wild peach) which is like a dried out peach I guess, could make great jam, grows in fairly arid ares. Then Ferdinandiana (kakadu plum), which I believe is the highest source of vitamin C of any know plant.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15108
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 02:18:10 AM »
Oscar. The bats in Hawaii are insectivorous and they DO NOT EAT FRUITS. So your comment from Hawaii about  'Easily germinated and carried over by bats' doesn't relate to what I commented. Please note these North American West Coast Immigrants, the Hoary bats somehow ended up in Hawaii at 2 different times. The first one 10,000 years ago and the recent one about 1000 years ago. This is the only land mammal indigenous to Hawaii.
Your opinion Terminalia catappa seeds are spread through ocean waters is interesting.
Hoary bat food is mainly wasps, beetles, fruit flies and other insects which is helping the fruit trees in Hawaii getting rid of some of these pests. Over 98% of TFF members and clients unfortunately do not have your advantage of having only one species of bat and the insectivorous one.
I didn't say anything about bats. BTW, the hoary bat in Hawaii is extremely rare. Hardly ever see them. About Terminalia catappa, that is not my opinion about them floating in water and spreading that way. It's a well known fact.
Oscar

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15108
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 02:21:13 AM »
Oscar. Regarding the Jamaican Cherry (Muntingia calabura): It is termed as a HIGH RISK  plant for invasion in the Hawaii according to the PIER report long time ago. This is in the absence of fruit bats but due to bird disbursement, having many seeds in the fruit, through the gut seeds have higher germination potential etc.
Because of the absence of fruit bats in Hawaii, Terminalia catappa is termed rightly as not invasive in spite of the thousands of miles of ocean floor you have there.
Thare are zero wild populations of Jamaican cherry tree here. Invasive plant list has lots of mistakes in it. The birds here don't seem to like it. Even my chickens don't eat it, and they eat just about anything.
Oscar

Coach62

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
    • Naples, FL Zone 10a
    • View Profile
    • Naples Home Inspections
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 06:36:23 AM »
Oscar. Regarding the Jamaican Cherry (Muntingia calabura): It is termed as a HIGH RISK  plant for invasion in the Hawaii according to the PIER report long time ago. This is in the absence of fruit bats but due to bird disbursement, having many seeds in the fruit, through the gut seeds have higher germination potential etc.
Because of the absence of fruit bats in Hawaii, Terminalia catappa is termed rightly as not invasive in spite of the thousands of miles of ocean floor you have there.
Thare are zero wild populations of Jamaican cherry tree here. Invasive plant list has lots of mistakes in it. The birds here don't seem to like it. Even my chickens don't eat it, and they eat just about anything.

I had one, I cut it down. Prolific fruit, with a vomit-like aftertaste.

shpaz

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15
    • Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »
We have three varieties of this fruit where I live and it is popular in backyard cultivation for its fruits. You will find the fruit being sold occasionally in the fruit markets or on the streets.

The three varieties that we have are as follows:

1. Hassawi: Maroon/Red from the outside and maroon from the inside, very fibrous. Has a sweet fruity flavor with slight sourness and is reminiscent of almonds. (see my profile picture)
2. Alexsandrani: Yellowish green from the outside and red from the outside, less fibers. The favor is more acidic than the Hasawi but also more complex and fruity but with defiant nuttiness.
3. Eastern: I have not tried this variety yet.

Consumption of the fruit has become less common nowadays probably due to the damn fruit flies.

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2018, 12:48:18 PM »
Hi Oscar. Thank you for your opinion regarding Terminalia catappa.
 From the sea shore which kind of non-human disperse it over 30 miles interior and over hundreds of feet above the sea level? FRUIT bats is the answer. Long time ago while attending a Tropical Naturalist club annual meeting, there was a discussion on this particular subject attended by some Internationally known Doctorates in Science. It is mainly the Fruit Bats that carry the Terminalia catappa fruit far away and after consuming it drops it's hard shelled seed. Whoever thinks otherwise should answer 1.How it is dispersed 30 + miles interior and about 100 feet or so above the sea level from the shore line, and 2. What and who planted or helped germinate these seeds there?
Since 80 plus years I am also familiar with bats carrying and dropping the Kidney shaped Cashew fruits (nut covered by shell) far away places after consuming the pear shaped juicy false fruit. In those days there was no known commercial farming of cashew. Most of the produce of Cashew nuts in India were harvested from the Forest and Wooded areas. Mostly Bats were responsible for India's Cashew crop then. So also in Brazil, Tropical Americas, Tropical Africa and Tropical Asia. We know that the Portuguese introduced this from Brazil through their African Colonies into India.Similarly bats suck the outer juicy part of the Arecanut fruit and drops the hard nut, usually far away from the source.
Regarding the Jamaican cherry as an invasive plant. Nowadays with Internet sales, Nursery trade, Seed trade by mail, Ebay, and of course mainly through the dispersal by bats and birds it will spread faster. High percentage of seeds coming out of the bat's gut germinate and at a faster rate! It was introduced in Hawaii by the then Government in 1922 and you don't have to worry because of the absence of fruit bats in Hawaii!
My views of what I saw and experienced all these years in a small scale in the practical fields of 'Flora and Fauna. Will be away in zones 11 to 13b for the next 4 months. Season's Greetings.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15108
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2018, 04:50:37 PM »
Yes many bats are great dispersers of fruits. Someone sent me seeds of a fruit they collected from fruit droppings. An unidentified fruit they had never seen before. As far as Terminalia catappa being distributed inland, this is sometimes possible without animal carriers when floating fruits flow inland via rivers with the ocean tide surges. They float very well and remain viable for a very long time. The tree is also extremely productive.
Oscar

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2018, 09:59:55 PM »
Oscar you can't make any one believe that ocean tide climbs over 100 feet above sea level and moves 50 miles interior! I am talking about visiting and seeing myself for the past 50+ years. And to add up to your 'Ocean and river tide' theory those trees are not even ten miles closer to the river. As I mentioned above it is the fruit eating bats that spread it mostly. With thousands of miles of sea shore in Hawaii why Terminalia catappa is not invasive there as per the USDA? I know that such news is bad for the nurseries and seed dealers. Please also note that in spite of the absence of fruit bats USDA calls Jamaican cherry to be invasive in Hawaii.

OCchris1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
    • Old Towne Orange, CA 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 02:45:19 AM »
Tripahl, how about human dispersal?  Bird dispersal? Your argument seems based on bats alone- no? I tend to think it's more complicated that that.
-Chris

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 02:00:29 PM »
Thanks. Human dispersal through ebay, seed sellers by mail, nurseries, few forums like TFF ! I have mentioned this in my first comment on this subject. But this spread is far away in the jungles and devoid of human habitat. And no one will plant it in the thickets of jungles far above the sea level and far interior from the shore in Government lands with no rivers!
Yes. The birds can carry them but most of the birds have a very small range (area) of territory and too small to carry them far away. Being a keen bird watcher I haven't seen them consuming those fruits either. But have seen them feeding on the insects around fruits.
In another column on TFF about a month back I commented on seeing Terminalia catappa wide spread in the jungles of Mexico from Cancun to Tulum with no rivers nearby high up in the interior far away from the ocean.
These are all my personal observations of nearly 8 decades and have nothing more to add on this subject. Good that I will be spending next four months in the fields of Tropical fruits of Asia. Season's Greetings. Triphal

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15108
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2018, 01:19:13 AM »
8 decades of personal observation?  :o Are you a centenarian?
Oscar

Triphal

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • US, Midatlantic, Charles Town, 6b + Lowland Tropical Zone 13
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2018, 09:12:40 AM »
Oscar only 1 1/2 decades short ! Lucky to be born in a family where the members were exposed to the Flora and Fauna from childhood. Were taught to call the trees, birds and animals by their species and names. Also lucky to grow up and mingle with and explore the Flora, Fauna and Geology from the ocean to about 100 miles interior. Thankfully those days these subjects were non commercial. I am one among the hundreds of that kind in the TFF!
 Do you have anything new on Terminalia catappa for the TFF?  Season's Greetings.  Triphal.

shaxs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Unknown fruit? in Mexico
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2018, 11:30:22 AM »
Oscar. Regarding the Jamaican Cherry (Muntingia calabura): It is termed as a HIGH RISK  plant for invasion in the Hawaii according to the PIER report long time ago. This is in the absence of fruit bats but due to bird disbursement, having many seeds in the fruit, through the gut seeds have higher germination potential etc.
Because of the absence of fruit bats in Hawaii, Terminalia catappa is termed rightly as not invasive in spite of the thousands of miles of ocean floor you have there.
Thare are zero wild populations of Jamaican cherry tree here. Invasive plant list has lots of mistakes in it. The birds here don't seem to like it. Even my chickens don't eat it, and they eat just about anything.

I had one, I cut it down. Prolific fruit, with a vomit-like aftertaste.

Oh I hope not. I heard it tastes sort of like cotton candy. I just bought a 6 ft tree.

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers