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Author Topic: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli  (Read 826 times)

skhan

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2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« on: November 28, 2018, 09:46:08 AM »
Is this cold front we're in enough to force flowers in most mango trees?
Some of mine only recently stopped flushing.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 01:00:35 PM by skhan »
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Cookie Monster

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 10:16:37 AM »
I would say yes. Huge transition from 80's to 50's. Should be plenty of shock to stimulate bloom.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2018, 10:20:51 AM »
It’s enough to ignite easily triggered varieties  like Rosigold, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa and Edward to a full bloom if they haven’t started already but it isn’t enough to stimulate a full bloom on most other cultivars, particularly when the highs are going right back into the mid-80s over the weekend/early part of next week.

More likely to see some partial bloom on a lot of stuff. A longer cold spell spanning a week + would do a lot more. 2 weeks of nighttime temps below 60F is ideal.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:37:02 AM by Squam256 »

simon_grow

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2018, 01:48:23 PM »
I completely agree with Squam.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext

Decreased leaf nitrogen levels combined with fully hardened and aged previous growth flushes can help.

Simon

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2018, 04:34:09 PM »
Interesting article Simon, thanks for sharing. Going to take another read or 2 to comprehend better. 

Could laying ice under a tree for multiple days on end cool the roots enough to further encourage flowering?

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 05:12:07 PM »
Partial bloom sounds right.

It seems like there are 2 factors that stimulate bloom, one is length of time / # of chill hours, but another seems to be "shock" (number of degree difference from one day to the next). Going from highs in the high 80's to a sudden drop into the low 50's (high 40's with wind chill?) over a < 24 hour period is a big slap in the face. A more gradual decline in temps has less of an effect... in my experience at least.

I've also seen cold sensitive trees crash and die with lows well above temps that would normally kill them, due to the shock of a quick drop. When plants have a chance to acclimate, the shock is much less.

It’s enough to ignite easily triggered varieties  like Rosigold, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa and Edward to a full bloom if they haven’t started already but it isn’t enough to stimulate a full bloom on most other cultivars, particularly when the highs are going right back into the mid-80s over the weekend/early part of next week.

More likely to see some partial bloom on a lot of stuff. A longer cold spell spanning a week + would do a lot more. 2 weeks of nighttime temps below 60F is ideal.
Jeff  :-)

Squam256

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 06:47:26 PM »
Partial bloom sounds right.

It seems like there are 2 factors that stimulate bloom, one is length of time / # of chill hours, but another seems to be "shock" (number of degree difference from one day to the next). Going from highs in the high 80's to a sudden drop into the low 50's (high 40's with wind chill?) over a < 24 hour period is a big slap in the face. A more gradual decline in temps has less of an effect... in my experience at least.

I've also seen cold sensitive trees crash and die with lows well above temps that would normally kill them, due to the shock of a quick drop. When plants have a chance to acclimate, the shock is much less.

It’s enough to ignite easily triggered varieties  like Rosigold, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa and Edward to a full bloom if they haven’t started already but it isn’t enough to stimulate a full bloom on most other cultivars, particularly when the highs are going right back into the mid-80s over the weekend/early part of next week.

More likely to see some partial bloom on a lot of stuff. A longer cold spell spanning a week + would do a lot more. 2 weeks of nighttime temps below 60F is ideal.

Yes there is a shock affect. Temps below 50 F, like which we’re experiencing now, tend to produce a better bloom response as well compared to 50s weather.

A number of trees have recently flushed growth due to the warm fall temps and some are even finishing growth flushes right now. With the exception of certain cultivars ( Rosa, Pim Sen Mun and Ah Ping being  a couple examples at our location), “young” , more recent growth will need a couple more months to have a floral response to a cold front.

Hopefully we can avoid extended periods of highs in the 80s and get more lows in the 50s or low 60s, rather than the 70s that we’ve seen much of the last few winters. A complete bloom makes things so much easier for growers like me than the sporadic multiple blooms like last year.

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 08:10:07 PM »
Some of the julie-line mangos can flush out of tender / red-stage growth. My coco cream has done it a couple of times. Very odd.

Hoping for a good bloom this winter. Wouldn't mind a few lychees either. My mauritius seems to bear about once every 6 to 8 years, so maybe it's due this year :-).

Let's revisit this thread in 2 - 3 weeks to see what's flowered in response to these past couple of nights :D

Partial bloom sounds right.

It seems like there are 2 factors that stimulate bloom, one is length of time / # of chill hours, but another seems to be "shock" (number of degree difference from one day to the next). Going from highs in the high 80's to a sudden drop into the low 50's (high 40's with wind chill?) over a < 24 hour period is a big slap in the face. A more gradual decline in temps has less of an effect... in my experience at least.

I've also seen cold sensitive trees crash and die with lows well above temps that would normally kill them, due to the shock of a quick drop. When plants have a chance to acclimate, the shock is much less.

It’s enough to ignite easily triggered varieties  like Rosigold, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa and Edward to a full bloom if they haven’t started already but it isn’t enough to stimulate a full bloom on most other cultivars, particularly when the highs are going right back into the mid-80s over the weekend/early part of next week.

More likely to see some partial bloom on a lot of stuff. A longer cold spell spanning a week + would do a lot more. 2 weeks of nighttime temps below 60F is ideal.

Yes there is a shock affect. Temps below 50 F, like which we’re experiencing now, tend to produce a better bloom response as well compared to 50s weather.

A number of trees have recently flushed growth due to the warm fall temps and some are even finishing growth flushes right now. With the exception of certain cultivars ( Rosa, Pim Sen Mun and Ah Ping being  a couple examples at our location), “young” , more recent growth will need a couple more months to have a floral response to a cold front.

Hopefully we can avoid extended periods of highs in the 80s and get more lows in the 50s or low 60s, rather than the 70s that we’ve seen much of the last few winters. A complete bloom makes things so much easier for growers like me than the sporadic multiple blooms like last year.
Jeff  :-)

skhan

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 08:23:03 PM »
Thanks for the replies and detailed discussion. Who know this might not be the end of our winter.
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mangokothiyan

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 09:03:41 PM »

For the third straight year, Ugly Betty is the first to bloom in my yard. Dwarf Hawaiian is second, but only has blooms on one or two branches.   
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 12:41:31 AM by mangokothiyan »

simon_grow

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2018, 11:31:49 PM »
Interesting article Simon, thanks for sharing. Going to take another read or 2 to comprehend better. 

Could laying ice under a tree for multiple days on end cool the roots enough to further encourage flowering?

Squam can probably answer this better than myself but from my recollection, it is a combination of cold stimuli(besides all the other factors) to the roots and shoots that will ultimately determine if the plant will or will not flower. Putting ice over the rhizosphere will decrease the temps of the soil directly adjacent to the ice but there is a lot of thermal mass in the soil and air pockets in the soil will buffer the cooling properties of the ice.

In my opinion, it would not be worth the effort. Timely pruning and a proper fertilization schedule may help those in warmer climates achieve more consistent yields.

I have not heard anyone talk about girdling mango trees but I would assume this is a viable and often overlooked technique.

Simon

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 12:35:27 AM »
Girdling and making cuts all around the trunks of mature mango trees are common practices through out SE Asia but I don't know when they are done exactly.
Thera

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 07:07:02 PM »
I would say yes. Huge transition from 80's to 50's. Should be plenty of shock to stimulate bloom.

Then how do mango trees in Vietnam, Thailand reliably fruit every year in almost constant warm climate?

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 07:29:59 PM »
I would say yes. Huge transition from 80's to 50's. Should be plenty of shock to stimulate bloom.

Then how do mango trees in Vietnam, Thailand reliably fruit every year in almost constant warm climate?

Dry season. Yucatán is much hotter than those Asian countries right now in the winter and mangos are flowering and setting

kh0110

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2018, 08:53:31 PM »
...
Then how do mango trees in Vietnam, Thailand reliably fruit every year in almost constant warm climate?

Not quite, end of year starting November and until Jan (even Feb now?), it's sweater weather for people over there. Not for us, obviously. That seems to be enough to trigger mango flowering. And best time to visit for occidental tourists who don't really care about tropical fruits.
As for reliability, pro growers have chemical arsenals at their disposal.
Thera

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2018, 10:52:31 AM »
Yah, it's the dry season. Same with most other places where mangoes are grown (eg, Central America, India, etc). Our (South Florida) dry season is not quite as dry as it is in other mango growing regions. We still get rain once every week or so.

When we don't get cold, the mango harvest is poor. When we get good cold, it's a bumper crop.

I would say yes. Huge transition from 80's to 50's. Should be plenty of shock to stimulate bloom.

Then how do mango trees in Vietnam, Thailand reliably fruit every year in almost constant warm climate?

Dry season. Yucatán is much hotter than those Asian countries right now in the winter and mangos are flowering and setting
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2018, 10:00:52 PM »
Could laying ice under a tree for multiple days on end cool the roots enough to further encourage flowering?
Reminds me of a fisherman friend in the Caribbean. I told him apples needed cold weather.
He got some apple seeds growing and tried dumping his ice every day on the roots.
Didn't help.

zands

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2018, 03:00:48 AM »
We have drier than last year.  I can tell by my lawn which  looks  60% more thirsty than last year at this time.  Looks to me like a cold winter this year with above average mango production in 2019 in South Florida East and West.

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2018, 10:20:16 AM »
My area has gotten a lot of rain for Nov. Finally had some reprieve from the rain starting right before that cold front.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2018, 10:22:49 AM »
There is a week El nino, but certainly one and while the predictions are more uncertain the expectation is for a wetter winter with equal to slightly higher chances of a warmer winter as well.

See the link below for NOAAs outlook. 

We should be happy for all the chill hours we get because the likelihood is we wont have a drought stress.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/enso/another-mild-winter-noaa%E2%80%99s-2018-19-winter-outlook

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2018, 01:36:42 PM »
Some of the mangos setting from this month and other trees flowering in Yucatán






skhan

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 08:50:21 AM »
Got a few more days (nights) in the 50s coming up.
Should be good news for the upcoming season.

BTW, I guess now is a good time to start spraying some sulfur. (and maybe copper)
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mangokothiyan

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Re: 2019 Mango season (Florida) flower stimuli
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 09:28:28 AM »

Got a few more days (nights) in the 50s coming up.
Should be good news for the upcoming season.

BTW, I guess now is a good time to start spraying some sulfur. (and maybe copper)



Copper for rain, sulfur for the cold weather..

 

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