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Author Topic: Please help me save this M4 mango tree  (Read 617 times)

jmart777

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Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« on: December 08, 2018, 08:56:26 PM »
Any chance of saving this M4 Mango, or is it too late?  I bought it 1 year ago. Live in San Diego County Zone 10a. Tree purchased from nursery here in SoCal, but from florida so likely grafted on turp.  I got greedy and let it hold a small fruit that I harvested and was tasty coconut flavor but not great (as expected for an immature tree that I should not have let fruit).  Die back started 1 month ago.  What to do?  Copper? Sulfur? Seaweed?  Hack it?  Figured I'd tap into this great resource before I start experimenting.  Thanks in advance.

JM








simon_grow

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 12:26:13 AM »
That is a Florida tree. Does it have any green leaves left on it. What kind of soil do you have it in?

It does look like die back, pretty typical of what we see here caused by Phomopsis. If there is enough green leaves, you can treat it with a systemic through foliar application along with a soil drench but so far from the pictures you posted, that tree looks like its on the verge of death, especially considering that we are entering into our coldest, wettest months.

Simon

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2018, 05:02:28 AM »
I agree with Simon.  We have dealt with this problem and had success if there are green leaves still on the tree.  We use multiple foliar sprays and soil drench when we buy new trees starting with em1, a quality compost tea, earthworm casting tea, Bokashi leachate tea, indigenous microorganism with Molasses.  We have not had any problems since.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 05:04:20 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

jmart777

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 08:28:44 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  Appreciate you guys.  I knew I could count on Simon to help out.

The soil is whatever it came in from the nursery in 5 gal. which appears to be loose planter mix with some sand then up-potted with a mix of HP pro mix with additional micorrhizae, azomite, worm castings, perlite, and some compost topping.  I will admit that I have somewhat neglected this mango tree.  Usually foliar spray with seaweed concentrate, but I want to say I have been missing this one.  I have been feeding it with Osmocote Plus and "Organic Plant Magic".  It started looking pretty sad when I let it keep one fruit... I took off the other 3 fruit when they were quarter size. Harvested the one tennis ball size M4 mango last month. Leaves are already toast unfortunately.  Had a few green leaves a few days ago, but then then we were hit with a recent downpour and the Santa Ana winds that finished this little tree off.

I've been reading through some posts.  I'm going to try PlantDoctor drench now and Ag Liquid Copper spray (although this is probably wasted with no proper foliage for uptake).  I really don't want to lose this tree... don't think I can find another one here in SoCal.  I think I'll bring it into the garage and keep it under lights and hope for the best. I'm cutting all the dieback off, but may be left with a stub when I'm done.  I was hoping to use scions from this tree to graft onto manila tree seedlings that I have planted in the ground as Simon has suggested in the past.

JM

simon_grow

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 07:15:26 PM »
JM, when you get trees from the nursery, it is best to step up the size of the pot slowly. From the pictures you posted, it looks like you have a small plant inside a big pot. When I up pot, i usually use a pot that is about 1-2 inches deeper and/or wider.

When you up pot a small plant into a big pot, you have to wet the entire volume of soil and by the time the top of the soil dries and is ready for more water, the bottom of the pot is still moist. If you water again before the bottom dries out, you can encourage the growth of objectionable organisms, some of which promotes or causes root rot.

If you tree is still alive, you can down pot it with a fast draining mix and give it bottom heat while you treat it with the systemics.

If you lose this tree, Im sure nurseries will carry it in the future and you will probably be able to order scions in the future as well.

Simon

Guanabanus

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 09:38:48 PM »
Also avoid compost in mango pots.
Har

NissanVersa

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 11:37:20 PM »
That looks like hardwood mulch on top of the soil.  If it is I would remove it as it's to rich for it. Pine mulch would be a better choice.

jmart777

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 03:21:55 AM »
JM, when you get trees from the nursery, it is best to step up the size of the pot slowly. From the pictures you posted, it looks like you have a small plant inside a big pot. When I up pot, i usually use a pot that is about 1-2 inches deeper and/or wider.

Got it.  I will up-pot more gradually from now on.


That looks like hardwood mulch on top of the soil.  If it is I would remove it as it's to rich for it. Pine mulch would be a better choice.


I believe it is small fir bark.


Also avoid compost in mango pots.

Thanks for chiming in Har.  I do avoid placing the compost inside the mix in the pot, but I thought it was okay to top dress with compost.  Should I avoid compost completely with potted mango trees?  How do you feel about compost with mango trees in the ground?

Thanks,

Jorge
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:05:28 AM by jmart777 »

Guanabanus

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 05:36:42 AM »
With trees in the ground, a very thin application of compost, like less than an inch will usually be ok, when you are wanting to encourage a lot of growth, as the compost tends to have quite a bit of Nitrogen.

Adding a couple of inches of tree-surgeon mulch (fresh, shredded prunings), instead of finished compost, seems to work best, as it it more slow-release.
Natural-materials mulch of leaves and small branches also works great around trees in the ground.

About potting up, you can pot up into a container as big as you like, PROVIDED the soil mix is mostly of NON-ORGANIC materials (i.e., not decomposable, carbon-based materials):  sand, Perlite, charcoal, bio-char, rock dusts, a little clay maybe, and only 5-10% by weight of slow-rotting bark or wood.  Make sure the pot has plenty of holes on the lower side and bottom.  Otherwise, the concerns about turning into a toxic anaerobic water rot, or low-oxygen swampy muck are very real, when you pot up a small-containerized plant into a huge container.
Har

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 12:03:40 PM »
Sorry but compost is not considered a high nitrogen fertilizer as most of the nitrogen is not readily available for plant uptake and needs to be converted by soil biology for the plant to absorb which takes time.  If you notice a flush in your trees after applying compost your soil biology is probably out of balance.

This is a soil borne disease, healthy soil usually will fix this problem.

We use 1/2 farm made quality biodynamic finished compost and 1/2 native soil for all seeds and transplants in pots with great success on all trees, cuttings and seeds.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 12:37:42 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

EvilFruit

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 04:08:27 PM »
Copper deficiency in mango could also cause gummosis and die back. so try to spray/drench your trees with chelated trace elements
Moh'd

jmart777

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 05:05:52 AM »
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Well... it looks like I lost the M4.  I cut it back almost down to the graft, but the trunk looked pretty sad... cambium layer barely green.  Waited way too long to do something about this and I should not have let it fruit... all my fault (some of us have to learn the hard way).  So bummed.  At least I got one seed out of it... hopefully I can get it to grow.  I understand it is poly-embryonic from prior posts, so I'll see what happens several years from now. In the meantime, if any of you SoCal peeps know where I might get another M4 around here, please let me know.   Better yet, if some of you guys are selling M4 (or other new tasty varieties) grafted onto better rootstock for San Diego area please let me know.  I would love to purchase or trade. 

On a brighter note... other small mango trees in pots are luckily doing okay (Cotton Candy, Sweet Tart, Fruit Punch, Phoenix, Orange Sherbert, Maha Chanok).   I had also planted 5 Laverne Manila in the ground a year ago to graft onto later that look happy.  Already have a 15 foot tall Manila in the ground for a few years that has been doing well.  I will try my luck at grafting onto it next spring.  The Alphonso mango tree I planted in the ground a few years ago looks sad.  Holding about 8 green fruit on it now, but it is so droopy and the main trunk is flopping over like a candy cane. This weeping mango tree will eventually get replaced with one of the newer varieties on appropriate rootstock.

JM

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. - Thomas A. Edison

Oolie

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 05:43:04 PM »
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Well... it looks like I lost the M4.  I cut it back almost down to the graft, but the trunk looked pretty sad... cambium layer barely green.  Waited way too long to do something about this and I should not have let it fruit... all my fault (some of us have to learn the hard way).  So bummed.  At least I got one seed out of it... hopefully I can get it to grow.  I understand it is poly-embryonic from prior posts, so I'll see what happens several years from now. In the meantime, if any of you SoCal peeps know where I might get another M4 around here, please let me know.   Better yet, if some of you guys are selling M4 (or other new tasty varieties) grafted onto better rootstock for San Diego area please let me know.  I would love to purchase or trade. 

On a brighter note... other small mango trees in pots are luckily doing okay (Cotton Candy, Sweet Tart, Fruit Punch, Phoenix, Orange Sherbert, Maha Chanok).   I had also planted 5 Laverne Manila in the ground a year ago to graft onto later that look happy.  Already have a 15 foot tall Manila in the ground for a few years that has been doing well.  I will try my luck at grafting onto it next spring.  The Alphonso mango tree I planted in the ground a few years ago looks sad.  Holding about 8 green fruit on it now, but it is so droopy and the main trunk is flopping over like a candy cane. This weeping mango tree will eventually get replaced with one of the newer varieties on appropriate rootstock.

JM

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” - Thomas A. Edison

Edison was quite the terrible individual, but nevertheless.

Some have had luck beating the droop by in-arching seedlings to the suffering trees.

Orkine

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Re: Please help me save this M4 mango tree
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 09:52:21 PM »
Have you considered grafting the Alphonso and perhaps 2 of your other varieties onto your 15 footer, making it a cocktail tree with 3 or 4 varieties?

 

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