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Author Topic: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate  (Read 1491 times)

hawkfish007

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Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« on: December 27, 2018, 01:22:19 PM »
I need help grafting Lapin cherry on Bing for pollination, I would compensate whatever the fare amount is. Please have some successful grafting experience. I am not sure when is the best time to graft stone fruits, so throwing it out there.  I am hoping same person will be able to show how to graft mango trees also. I am in Highland, CA 92346.

Thanks.

simon_grow

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 05:21:50 PM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 05:54:04 PM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried grafting 5 or so scions early November and all of them failed. I am afraid to try more. I remember Gary Zill was stressing about cambium layer on several of his YouTube videos, I have no clue how does cambium layer look like. I would love to see when someone does grafting in person. Please let me know when you do.

venturabananas

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 07:29:57 PM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried grafting 5 or so scions early November and all of them failed. I am afraid to try more. I remember Gary Zill was stressing about cambium layer on several of his YouTube videos, I have no clue how does cambium layer look like. I would love to see when someone does grafting in person. Please let me know when you do.

The problem is probably not your technique, but your timing.  You want to graft stone fruit a little bit before they leaf out, not months before they leaf out (unless you are bud grafting in summer).  Simple cleft or whip and tongue grafts are almost foolproof done within a month or so of when the trees break bud.  Even after they start to push new growth, the success rate is really high.  Given where you live in So Cal, I wouldn't think you'd want to graft earlier than late January.  If you know when your tree has typically broken buds, aim for two weeks before that, more or less.

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 09:23:13 PM »
I am feeling more confident now. I had the impression that low temp at night may have contributed my first attempt to mango grafting.

raiders36

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 09:50:42 PM »
Grafting those deciduous fruit tree are very easy. In mid-Jan or so, collect bud woods (please clean the shear with rubbing alcohol) and store them in a zip lock bag in the refrigerator. Wait til the tree starts showing the buds swelling up (can also graft when flowering). That is the time when the tree is pushing the sugar upward. Usually 100% take as long as both cambium layers fuse (please clean your hand and tools with rubbing alcohol prior). btw when the tree is pushing you can also do bark grafting because you can peel the bark back....What you see there is the cambium layer.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 09:53:01 PM by raiders36 »

Bush2Beach

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 10:22:13 PM »
Temperate

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 12:17:03 AM »
It appears bud grafting is the easiest one to do. Is the success rate of bud grafting similar to other methods?

forumfool

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 08:44:48 AM »
Raiders advice is good even if you have never grafted before follow his advice and watch a YouTube video on the technique you want to try. Do a few grafts to increase your chance of success

venturabananas

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 09:58:54 AM »
It appears bud grafting is the easiest one to do. Is the success rate of bud grafting similar to other methods?

I find cleft grafting the easiest and faster to grow out than bud grafts. Thatís what Iíd recommend to someone who hasnít done much grafting.

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2018, 12:23:06 AM »
Came across this grafting tool while watching some youtube videos about stone fruit grafting. I ordered one to try. Does anyone tried this tool to graft mango scions successfully?




simon_grow

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2018, 01:35:54 AM »
I havenít tried that model yet but I tried one of the cheaper ones and it sucks.

Iím waiting to order the scionon tool but they are out of the model Iím looking for.

If you plan on grafting a lot in the future, I highly recommend you just keep practicing with a knife/razor.

When grafting, you have to be dynamic. Sometimes the scions or rootstocks are not ideal and being flexible in terms of types of cuts and tools you use will enable you to have more success.

Simon

buddy roo

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2018, 10:15:18 AM »
Hi Simon, what grafting tool are you looking for?? i have the orange one sold by garret wade made in italy if you would like to try it.            Regards     Patrick

simon_grow

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 09:44:28 PM »
Hey Patrick,

I ordered the Sciononô SGM5-22R but the distributor was out of stock. Since then, I have decided to stick with my grafting knives and box cutters/razor blades. Iím not sure if this is the same tool you have but Iím interested if youíve had success using your tool.

I like to use box cutters for grafting mangos because mango has lots of sticky sap that gums up my knives/blades and with box cutters/razors, I can easily and relatively cheaply replace them as they gum up. I typically do about 2-300 mango grafts a year so other hobby grafters out there may not run into the same issues I do.

Simon

Diospyros

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2018, 09:07:47 AM »
Before saying your failure is due to this or that, it might be interesting to know what's your rootstock like and how you grafted it.

How big is your rootstocck? How big is your scionwood? What technique did you use?

In zone 9B, if your daily temps are around 62 and 68įF feel free to graft as soon as January.

I have done it on many occasions and it works perfectly. (I'm in a mediterranean country) Obviously any technique requiering a slippery bark is a big no no but that's pretty much the only limit to grafting at this time of the year!

The advantage to this timing is by the time others start grafting their trees, you'll know if yours have taken or not and you get another chance at it even before your trees have leafed out.

Another advantage of grafting early I have never had any problem with sap overflow which can sometimes be a problem with cherry trees.

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2018, 05:42:29 PM »
Rootstock is seedling Manilla in the ground for over 3-4 years, don't remember the exact year I planted it. It was neglected and was on sprinkler water, but grew to over 7'. It was a windy day when I grafted on pencil thick or thicker branches and was in a hurry. Scions were less than pencil diameter. I tried venner grafting after watching youtube videos unsuccessfullt. I will try grafting cherries, persimmons, guavas etc. when temp is over 60 F. I really want to be efficient in grafting someday. I have limited backyard space and planted 12 mango varieties in ground and growing 6 dwarf varieties in pots. I would like to expand mango varieties by grafting one or two on each tree.

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2019, 01:42:23 PM »
So I ordered 2 grafting tools to try out. Both makes clean cuts easily, and inexpensive. I found bigger tool on the right has sharper blade. Probably adequate for me since I have a small backyard and limited number of fruit trees (~40). Planning to try grafting stone fruits end of January or whenever night temp goes over 60 F.

Happy new year and happy planting!




Goyo626

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2019, 09:41:51 AM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried grafting 5 or so scions early November and all of them failed. I am afraid to try more. I remember Gary Zill was stressing about cambium layer on several of his YouTube videos, I have no clue how does cambium layer look like. I would love to see when someone does grafting in person. Please let me know when you do.

Your timing is definitely off. But i would wait to regraft until there are at least 3 days with day time temp over 75f and night time temps over 55f. Previous years i had 5% success rate with peach tree grafts. Then last year i took the advice of some posters on another forum which indicated that for some stone fruits warmer temps are necessary for the grafts to callous. I received scionwood in january  and waited until warmer weather in march. Surprisingly i had 100% takes in peach cleft grafts. I dont think my knife skills improved all that much in one year so i put it down to waiting for warmer weather and storing scion wood in the refrigerator with ziploc bags with moist towel.

venturabananas

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2019, 05:06:57 PM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried grafting 5 or so scions early November and all of them failed. I am afraid to try more. I remember Gary Zill was stressing about cambium layer on several of his YouTube videos, I have no clue how does cambium layer look like. I would love to see when someone does grafting in person. Please let me know when you do.

Your timing is definitely off. But i would wait to regraft until there are at least 3 days with day time temp over 75f and night time temps over 55f. Previous years i had 5% success rate with peach tree grafts. Then last year i took the advice of some posters on another forum which indicated that for some stone fruits warmer temps are necessary for the grafts to callous. I received scionwood in january  and waited until warmer weather in march. Surprisingly i had 100% takes in peach cleft grafts. I dont think my knife skills improved all that much in one year so i put it down to waiting for warmer weather and storing scion wood in the refrigerator with ziploc bags with moist towel.

You don't need that kind of warmth.  With decent cleft grafts on peach done in January with healthy scion wood and rootstock, you should get close to 100% success.

ramv

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2019, 05:43:55 PM »
So I ordered 2 grafting tools to try out. Both makes clean cuts easily, and inexpensive. I found bigger tool on the right has sharper blade. Probably adequate for me since I have a small backyard and limited number of fruit trees (~40). Planning to try grafting stone fruits end of January or whenever night temp goes over 60 F.

Happy new year and happy planting!




The tool on the right is modeled on a professional tool called "FieldCraft Topgrafter" which is widely used in the kiwi, grape and nut grafting industry. For professionals time is money and skilled labor that can use a grafting knife properly is expensive.  Grafting tools such as this one can cut better than most people who aren't expert grafters. You made a right decision.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 05:56:37 PM by ramv »

Diospyros

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2019, 06:49:06 PM »
Grafting Stone fruits is very easy. Just look up a video on YouTube. You need to graft when the branches are dormant. I like to graft several weeks to a month before I expect the trees to come out of dormancy.

There are also plenty of great mango grafting videos. If you have any specific questions, just ask here. Good luck!

Simon

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried grafting 5 or so scions early November and all of them failed. I am afraid to try more. I remember Gary Zill was stressing about cambium layer on several of his YouTube videos, I have no clue how does cambium layer look like. I would love to see when someone does grafting in person. Please let me know when you do.

Your timing is definitely off. But i would wait to regraft until there are at least 3 days with day time temp over 75f and night time temps over 55f. Previous years i had 5% success rate with peach tree grafts. Then last year i took the advice of some posters on another forum which indicated that for some stone fruits warmer temps are necessary for the grafts to callous. I received scionwood in january  and waited until warmer weather in march. Surprisingly i had 100% takes in peach cleft grafts. I dont think my knife skills improved all that much in one year so i put it down to waiting for warmer weather and storing scion wood in the refrigerator with ziploc bags with moist towel.

You don't need that kind of warmth.  With decent cleft grafts on peach done in January with healthy scion wood and rootstock, you should get close to 100% success.

+1 about the warmth needed for grafting peaches and cherries. Not required.

A week after I grafted mine in January it snowed and the temps dropped severly. I just made sure I wrapped my grafts with parafilm. I'm pretty sure this helps quite a bit as the healing process is slowed down when it's colder especially during the nights but the sun stills shines warm during the day.


If the scionwood is thinner than the rootstock I suggest side whip and tongue.


 






Here's the result 6 months later....





You can also use chip budding. I wrap the chip with electrical tape leaving only the bud sticking out. I still cover it with parafilm just to be safe.... I top the rootstock and I find that the bud pushes really strong.

The reason I wrap the graft in electrical tape is because at this time of the year the callous grows fast and strong but it does so irregularly and it's not rare that I find the chip is popped out on one side.

The electrical tape is pretty strong and it makes sure eventhough the callous pushes out one section, the rest of the cambium layers always stays in contact until the callous has worked its way of over it
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 07:06:48 PM by Diospyros »

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2019, 08:56:59 PM »
Thanks for all the tips, I am feeling more confident now. I will be trying grafting lapin on bing before the end of the month.

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2019, 03:20:25 PM »
Tried my first stone fruit grafting today, rainier and black tartan cherry on bing. Hoping for the best.

Here are some pictures, also practiced a little to get ready for mango grafting in a few months.















simon_grow

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2019, 12:03:03 AM »
Those look like clean cuts and good matches. I noticed on your first picture, the graft Union was not wrapped, I suppose you did that to show the union. If the union is not wrapped or covered, I highly recommend you wrap the union and the entire scion in order to prevent drying out. Good luck with your grafts.

Simon

hawkfish007

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Re: Help needed grafting Lapin on Bing Cherry, would compensate
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2019, 01:37:23 AM »
Those look like clean cuts and good matches. I noticed on your first picture, the graft Union was not wrapped, I suppose you did that to show the union. If the union is not wrapped or covered, I highly recommend you wrap the union and the entire scion in order to prevent drying out. Good luck with your grafts.

Simon

Thanks, yeah that pic was to show the union. I wrapped the scion with parafilm and the union with electrical tape. I also used clothespin on top of the tape (I think I read it in one of your post and decided to use clothespin as well).

 

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