Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids  (Read 590 times)

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« on: January 13, 2019, 12:28:17 AM »
Let's talk about some of the more unusual and obscure complex hybrids.


Dimicelli - I'm not exactly sure where this one comes from but it's believed to either be a citrandarin or, more likely I've read, someone remembered it being a Clementine cross with CiTemple.

"The common tangerine is the hardiest of the dessert citrus, and was a possible source of genetic material.  The first attempt was Clementine x P. trifoliata, and these survived, at least in Franklin at 0F (-17.8C)and in Houstion at 5F (-15C)to fruit following the freeze of 1989.  They seem to be hardy to five degree above zero.  Several siblings, 'Dimicelli', 'Backyard' and 'Hardy Fruitful 90 have received the dignity of names."
The Hardy Citrus of Texas, reported by C.T. Kennedy from the notes of John R. Brown, M.D., article in Fruit Gardener, page 14

CiTemple is a Temple orange x poncirus cross, Temple orange actually being a tangor that has zygotic seeds and thus a suitable choice for female parent in hybridization efforts. I've read some references to "CiTemple edible" which was considered particularly good tasting variety for a citrange.

Ventura Lemandarin- This is believed to be a cross between Tiwanica lemon and either Keraji or Satsuma mandarin.
Ventura lemandarin is sour, like a lemon.
Seems to be a vigorous growing variety. Supposedly when it was high grafted onto poncirus it managed to survive a brief 6 F event with branch die-back, according to one report.

According to genetic marker studies, Tiwanica lemon seems to really be a sort of sour orange, with pomelo-type gene indications. It originated from Taiwan, and was named Nanshodaidai in Japan. The fruits are as sour as a lemon.
Both Keraji and Satsuma are closely related in ancestry, Keraji having even more cold tolerance than Satsuma, though smaller more sour (and seedy) fruits.

Glen citrangedin- This was an early citrange x calamondin cross.

" The first hybrids were between Poncirus trifoliata and varieties of the cultivated orange. They were called "Citranges" and while they received a good deal of publicity when they were first introduced they may be said to have been more encouraging than useful. The fruit, though beautiful to look at, was scarcely larger than that of the Trifoliate Orange, and while the juice, taken by itself, could be used as a substitute for lemons, there was even in the hybrid so much musky oil in the rind, that special precautions had to be taken in opening the fruit. Another bad trait of the hybrid was its too quick response to warm weather in the early spring. It was, therefore, crossed with two other citrus fruits, which, though not so hardy in other ways, were slower to start into growth m the spring. These were the Kumquat, Fortunella japonica, and the Calamondin, Citrus mitas, a tropical citrus fruit from the Philippines. The triple hybrids which resulted were called "Citrangequats" and "Citrangedins" respectively. The most promising hybrid yet introduced is among the latter group and has been named the Glen Citrangedin, from Glen St. Marys, Florida, where much of the breeding work has been done. It has small fruits about the size and flavor of a lime, but colored like an orange. The rind is without even a trace of the musky oil which characterizes the original hybrid and the tree is hardy at least as far north as southern Georgia. This artificial cosmopolite, uniting the possibilities of the Chinese Poncirus, and Philippine Calamondin with the common orange, is the "farthest north" which has as yet been achieved by the plant breeders. "
Arnold Arboretum Harvard University Bulletin of Popular Information, Series 3, Volume VI, November 5, 1932, article: Growing Orages in Boston, page 45, Edgar Anderson

I don't know about good tasting though. I was given two of the fruits and they had an unpleasant aroma, like rubber and baby wipes that made them inedible to me. The same with many other poncirus hybrids.
If they had been grown from seed it's possible they just reverted to a more bad flavored type, so I can't be completely sure if the fruits were truly indicitive of the original Glen citrangedin. Fruit size was also incredibly small, tinier than big sized kumquats.
Thomasville citrangequat was infinitely better.

MIC (Minneola x Ichang papeda x CiTemple Edible) -
I believe this was bred by Dr. Brown, who first crossed Ichang papeda with CiTemple Edible, and then crossed that with Minneola Tangelo.

(I have a seedling cultivar of this, may or may not be exactly the same as the original MIC, but unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to see any fruits yet)

Minneola tangelo isn't exactly a real cold hardy variety, but they are a bit hardier than oranges.

Florian

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • Solothurn, Switzerland.
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 06:32:43 AM »
Unfortunately, none of these are readily available to us (except Glen and Thomasville).

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3074
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 09:58:38 AM »
you might be able to get either a fruit or perhaps seed from Eyeckr  a member of this forum.  The lemon is named after him.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 10:01:55 AM by Millet »

Ilya11

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 10:17:31 AM »
I got recently this  Ventura fruit from a friend in Ukraine.

Best regards,
                       Ilya

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 05:19:00 PM »
Unfortunately, none of these are readily available to us (except Glen and Thomasville).
I have all four of the ones listed, and will be happy to send out seeds once they have fruited, but they're still probably a long way away from fruiting.

Eyeckr has some extra Glen citrangedin fruits, I'm sure he could send you one. Though after looking at the fruit for myself, I'm not sure I'd bother.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 05:23:28 PM »
A question, does anyone know if the Ventura lemandarin originated from Ventura, California?
There's also a Ventura county in Florida just outside of Orlando.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 05:26:22 PM by SoCal2warm »

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3074
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 11:00:10 PM »
I believe Ventura is Eyeckr's last name.  I think he developed the Ventura lemon.   He sent me a fruit 3 or 4 years ago.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 01:01:48 AM by Millet »

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 01:42:08 AM »
I believe Ventura is Eyeckr's last name.
I believe you are correct. That would make sense then. 

Radoslav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 664
    • Slovakia
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 02:08:46 AM »
I believe Ventura is Eyeckr's last name.

I believe you are correct. That would make sense then.


Everything is in old forum, you should search it, for example here etc.
http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopicf835.php
And yes, he is an author of Ventura mandarin.

Florian

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • Solothurn, Switzerland.
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 02:45:47 AM »
Unfortunately, none of these are readily available to us (except Glen and Thomasville).
I have all four of the ones listed, and will be happy to send out seeds once they have fruited, but they're still probably a long way away from fruiting.

Eyeckr has some extra Glen citrangedin fruits, I'm sure he could send you one. Though after looking at the fruit for myself, I'm not sure I'd bother.

Thanks for the offer. Glen and Thomasville are easily available here but not the others. I shall ask Eyeckr.

Ilya11

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 04:32:38 AM »
This  fruit is from a plant grown from  Eyeckr seed. It is in Nikitsky Botanical garden in Crimea, zone 8b.
The fruit was harvested in November and when I got it as a New Year gift it was  rather dry inside, but with a very good ratio of sugar/acids, no bitter taste, no off-flavors.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Jloup27

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11
    • France - Normandy - Bernay (27) - Zone 8a (-10 -12C) -15C February 2012
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 07:50:36 AM »
I would be happy to have some seeds of these hybrids. I am open to barter.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 02:36:09 PM »
Eyeckr is growing numerous cold hardy citrus cultivars right up against an inlet of water in Virginia Beach (in case any of you are not aware, or for those who may be reading an archived version of this in the distant future), in zone 8a.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2019, 05:27:49 PM »
A CALAMONDIN HYBRID
GLEN CITRANGEDIN

The calamondin has been utilized in a number of hybrids, the most promising of them being one in which it was pollinated with pollen of the Willits citrange. This citrange, which has been previously described, is itself a hybrid, resulting from pollinating the Japanese trifoliate orange (Poncirus trifoliata) with pollen of the common sweet orange (Citrus sinensis). The citranges as a class are the hardiest of all evergreen citrus varieties or hybrids, but the fruit usually retains an objectionable quantity of musky oil, derived from the trifoliate parent, that necessitates special precautions in using the rather acid fruits for " ade " or preserves. Most of the hybrids in which the citrange has been utilized have traces of this flavor much reduced, however, as in the Thomas ville citrangequat, a hybrid of the oval kumquat (Fortunella margarita) and the Willits citrange. By hybridizing the Willits citrange with the calamondin, however, a fruit has been produced that is fully as hardy as the citrange parent but entirely free from the pungent oil usually associated with hybrids of trifoliate orange ancestry. The tree, however, so closely resembles the common calamondin that some doubt might be raised as to the hybrid nature of the plant but for the occurrence of trifoliate leaves, especially in the juvenile stages, combined with much greater hardiness and greater vigor of growth, as compared with the ordinary calamondin.

This hybrid was the result of a cross-pollination made by the senior writer in the spring of 1909 at Glen St. Mary, Fla. Mature trees
have been fruiting with great regularity at Glen St. Mary for some years past and have survived freezes that severely injured the ordinary calamondin and the limequat. More than 100 miles farther north, at McKae, Ga., this hybrid has also fruited well, and the fruit has been reported as acceptable at the local soda fountains for use in preparing "limeade," which can scarcely be distinguished from the true limeade.

As this fruit originated at Glen St. Mary, where it has long been fruiting, it is proposed to call it the Glen citrangedin.

Technical description. Fruit somewhat variable in size, oblate-spheroid, 1%
to 1% inches in transverse diameter by 1 to iy inches high, small per-
sistent calyx set in slight depression, minute nipple at pistil end; color deep
reddish orange (Ridgway, cadmium orange) ; rind thin and firm (one-
eighth inch in thickness), not as free peeling as the calamondin and some-
what coarser, smooth and glossy, except for slight indentations due to
numerous minute oil-cell depressions; segments 6 to 8, separating easily;
small solid core ; pulp juicy, tender, and translucent, very sharply acid but with-
out trace of the repugnant oil usually encountered in hybrids of the trifoliate
orange, color of pulp orange yellow (Ridgway cadmium yellow) ; seeds small
and plump, 3 to 5, some fruits seedless. Tree evergreen, of vigorous upright
habit, highly ornamental, especially when bearing a crop of bright-colored fruits ;
leaves usually unifoliate, occasional bifoliate and trifoliate leaves appearing,
dark green, glossy, 1% to 2^4 inches in length, long-pointed oval, petiole nar-
rowly winged and long in comparison with leaf size.

The tree has the habit, more pronounced than in the true calamondin, of
bearing its fruit in clusters at the ends of long slender branches, bending the
tree over with the weight of the fruit.

In regions too cold for growing the limequat or the ordinary calamondin with safety, this hardy fruit, the Glen citrangedin, offers
an attractive and useful substitute. It is, of course, chiefly of service in preparing "ades" and in flavoring, much as lemons or limes are used. When not intended for immediate use, the fruit should be picked in the yellow or green-yellow stage rather than when red, as the small, fully ripe fruits tend to shrivel rather rapidly when held at ordinary storage temperature.

The tree is more or less everbearing, although the bulk of the fruit matures in the late summer and fall months. Owing to its small
size, the fruit freezes at temperatures only slightly below freezing, so it can not be held on the trees over winter in cold sections. Most of the trees thus far fruiting have been budded on the trifoliate-orange stock, and this doubtless has added to their hardiness. The tree should be grown on this stock or on the hybrid citrange in the colder sections of the Gulf coast and coastal-plains area of the South.

Like the true calamondin, this new fruit has value as an ornamental when grown as a dwarf or potted plant.

The Glen citrangedin, obtained by hybridizing the Willits citrange with the calamondin, is a remarkable new acid fruit which combines to a large extent the extreme hardiness of the citrange parent with the high acidity and excellent flavor of the calamondin. It has been grown successfully as far north as McRae (latitude 32), in southern Georgia, and can endure more winter cold than any other acid fruit of good quality yet studied.

Unlike the citrange, the Glen citrangedin has a sharp acid flavor without a trace of the repellent bitter flavor carried by oil globules
in the interior of the pulp vesicles of the citrange. It is not only an excellent "ade" fruit for home use and for local markets, but
also has high ornamental value if grown as a dwarf or potted plant.

On account of its extreme hardiness it should be tested throughout the warmer parts of the Gulf coast and also in southern and south-eastern Georgia, southern Texas, and possibly in the cooler irrigated valleys of Arizona where lemons, limes, and even limequats do not succeed.

New Citrus Hybrids, United States Department of Africulture, Circular No. 181, August 1931


SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: More unusual/obscure cold hardy citrus hybrids
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2019, 01:37:28 AM »
little seedlings, Dimicelli in the front, and Ventura Lemandarin a little further back:

received from Eyeckr

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers