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Author Topic: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial  (Read 26378 times)

Jibro

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #275 on: July 25, 2020, 02:37:16 AM »
(Of course, you will actually have to grow the seedling until it becomes big enough to fruit, to determine that)

And that is problem, even if I get only 10 fruits from crosspolination, it's about 300 seeds with no way to select hybrids from nucellar clones (if you cross poncirus x poncirus) until they start fruiting and it took 8-10 years in my zone 6....with high probability one extreme winter, which may kill even older poncirus.

Very interesting post, jibro. Do you do Citrus breeding? If so, have you developed any selections?

I have no "big plans" for citrus breedings, I just collected more edible poncirus clones and I want to test them all in the same conditions to determine if they really have better taste...

I may try some crosses with orange or mandarine varieties, because I am curious if these "more edible" poncirus clones can create F1 poncirus hybrids with better tasting fruits than existing citrumelo and citrange...
This year i tried pollinated my fruiting poncirus with Ponderosa pollen because I am curious if some of them may produce hybrids as mother and I also have one fruit from more edible FD pollinated with Citrumelo 5*.
My biggest "success" so far is one very dwarf Flying Dragon seedling from 2017, it had first 3 flowers this spring and it has more flower buds again, so it looks like I found another precocious clone...

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #276 on: July 25, 2020, 04:40:39 PM »
 Current photos of recent outdoor high grafts on Poncirus, as well as grafts on 1 year Poncirus.

Photos of the interior of the cold frame housing 1 1/2 year old grafted clones of the original survivors & 2 1/2 year old original surviving seedlings.




Recent outdoor high grafts of TaiTri, 5* citrumelo, and various Conestoga selections.


A few of 440 recent grafts on Poncirus year old seedlings. There are 8 seedlings per pot.


Conestoga #001 high graft on Poncirus needs support due to very rapid slender growth.
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More recent outdoor grafts on fruiting age Poncirus.
[url=https://postimg.cc/CzR7KrQY]


2nd year graft of Conestoga #011 on fruiting age Poncirus, hopefully it'll flower in 2-3 years.




« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 07:16:20 AM by kumin »

vnomonee

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #277 on: August 06, 2020, 02:12:10 PM »
Quote
I have no "big plans" for citrus breedings, I just collected more edible poncirus clones and I want to test them all in the same conditions to determine if they really have better taste...

Are there any large scale citrus breeding programs using Poncirus+ (reduced/without bitterness) to recreate/improve all of the "bad tasting" hybrids that already exist?

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #278 on: August 06, 2020, 03:15:31 PM »
I'm not aware of many Poncirus+ trees in the US, especially in regards to mature, fruiting trees. This should not be a major obstacle, as well grown Poncirus fruits rather young. I've been in the process of grafting juvenile phase Poncirus+ on year old seedlings, I'm uncertain as to the success rate, but I should know shortly.

Answering your question a bit more directly, this would be a great project for someone with a collection of various zygotic cultivars, used as maternal, or paternal parents. Walt has suggested doing exactly what you're proposing.

I would love to see young people getting involved with cold hardy Citrus breeding. Realistically, some of us have collected, selected, or created selections that while not reaching all of the goals we're seeking, may provide valuable breeding material for further advances.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #279 on: August 16, 2020, 07:59:44 PM »
This is Conestoga A-26 the tallest specimen at 28 months of age. Knowing it was at least 8' (2,43M) tall, I measured it and found it to be 108" (2,74M) tall. The node count is just over 100 nodes. Due to it's very rapid growth it will likely still be several years until flowering. This tree strongly resembles Poncirus, with leaves smaller than Poncirus. The growth is extremely upright. The cold frame is 11' (3.35M) tall and will probably be too low by next autumn.



« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 10:49:02 AM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #280 on: September 23, 2020, 01:39:02 PM »
Top grafts on Poncirus after 15 months.






Top grafts on Poncirus after 2-3 months.




The 15 months old scions have gone through a mild Winter without damage. There are approximately 20 scions to be exposed during the upcoming winter.

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #281 on: September 24, 2020, 01:40:18 PM »
It is really impressive how fast they grow. Have you ever thought of using paclobutrazol to trigger flowering?
Ilya has done some research on this.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #282 on: September 24, 2020, 02:44:14 PM »
Mikkel, our Summers on the East Coast are characterized by hot, humid weather with fairly long days. Your days are obviously longer during Summer. Our Summers can come to an abrupt end, which can leave tender, vulnerable growth  going into Winter. I have been pleasantly surprised by the growth rate of the Citrus in my project.
I've skimmed through methods to hasten flowering/fruiting, but feel that a bit more scaffolding development would be beneficial before utilizing those techniques.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #283 on: October 10, 2020, 12:32:52 PM »
This may be rather optimistic, but several potential flower buds have developed on Conestoga 011 top grafts on Poncirus. These scions will only be 3 years old from seed by April 2021. They clearly appear different from the majority of the vegetative buds. Perhaps they are simply imperfect male flowers on the scion's first bloom.

If these are not flower buds, I suspect they are precursors to flowering in 1-2 years.

Vegetative bud.


These could potentially be flower buds.





« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 03:18:39 PM by kumin »

hardyvermont

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #284 on: October 10, 2020, 02:41:36 PM »
Last picture looks tetraploid.   :)

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #285 on: October 10, 2020, 03:29:25 PM »
The photos are all from the same clone including the first one. The potential tetraploidy has previously been suggested. If tetraploid, the larger buds may be caused by tetraploidy rather than flower initiation.

hardyvermont

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #286 on: October 13, 2020, 12:15:34 AM »
I have some F1 citrus x poncirus hybrids, within each plant there are varying leaf shape and thickness.  Perhaps varying amounts of tetraploid cells may be present in different branches of the plants.   This is apparent only when poncirus is part of the cross.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 02:12:47 PM by hardyvermont »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #287 on: October 21, 2020, 01:55:06 PM »
Recent photos:

5* citrumelo - very vigorous and 8 ft. (2.43 meters) tall - 18 months from seed



Original test plot - 100's of survivors 30 months from seed most are unlikely to survive above frozen soil in the upcoming Winter.



Monofoliate Conestoga #058 30 months from seed.



Conestoga # 002 deciduous - The original plant is 30 months old from seed, very low thorniness. This is a 16 month old  plant grafted on Poncirus.



Conestoga A-026 deciduous 10' ( 3 meters) tall 30 months from seed.



Various Conestoga seedlings 30 months from seed.



Ichangequat 6-7-2 18 months from seed suffered freeze damage and Botrytis infection during the past Winter.



Poncirus + entering autumn color change 18 months from seed


« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 04:23:34 AM by kumin »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #288 on: October 22, 2020, 03:24:20 AM »
You have excellent  growing conditions. :)
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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