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weiss613

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I知
« on: February 09, 2019, 09:30:17 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 07:55:25 AM by weiss613 »

skhan

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I have a 1/5 acre lot, house no pool and a canal in the back.
I managed to squeeze 60 trees in. (Only 17 mangos with 10-15ft spacing)

I think 250 would be hard with mangos.

Look into ultra high density planting and check the recommended spacing.
Also you can look into multiple trees in one hole.

Managing the differing vigor between all the cultivars would be very difficult and that's on top of the regular trimming.
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spaugh

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You need to define the size of the planting area and then pick your spacing and then figure out how many trees will fit.

Lets say your lot is 200ft x 100ft, thats a little less than half acre.  You could do 10x10 spacing and fit 10 trees in 20 rows.  200 trees crammed in there. 

Or 15 x 15 spacing would be around 7 trees per row times 14 rows.  Around 100 trees. 
Brad Spaugh

weiss613

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Maybe it would be better if I just saved the money and use it for psychiatric help!!??

Cookie Monster

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HAHA!

80 or so trees would be doable, depending on the lot. 250 would look cute for the first couple of years, then turn into a nightmare (isn't that like 5 or 6 foot spacing??).
Jeff  :-)

spaugh

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Maybe it would be better if I just saved the money and use it for psychiatric help!!??

Maybe start with 10 trees and see how it goes.  Putting in 100+ trees takes a lot of effort.
Brad Spaugh

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Planting 100+ trees is a tiny fraction of the effort that it takes to maintain them :-). Pruning, fertilization, pest control, weed control, etc for the next few decades is a monster time suck as the trees mature -- for us Floridians at least.

Maybe it would be better if I just saved the money and use it for psychiatric help!!??

Maybe start with 10 trees and see how it goes.  Putting in 100+ trees takes a lot of effort.
Jeff  :-)

skhan

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Planting 100+ trees is a tiny fraction of the effort that it takes to maintain them :-). Pruning, fertilization, pest control, weed control, etc for the next few decades is a monster time suck as the trees mature -- for us Floridians at least.

Maybe it would be better if I just saved the money and use it for psychiatric help!!??

Maybe start with 10 trees and see how it goes.  Putting in 100+ trees takes a lot of effort.

Not to mention at 5ft spacing I don't think you'll have any space to walk
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spaugh

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Planting 100+ trees is a tiny fraction of the effort that it takes to maintain them :-). Pruning, fertilization, pest control, weed control, etc for the next few decades is a monster time suck as the trees mature -- for us Floridians at least.

Maybe it would be better if I just saved the money and use it for psychiatric help!!??

Maybe start with 10 trees and see how it goes.  Putting in 100+ trees takes a lot of effort.

Yep, big commitment.  We are lucky here theres less fungal and bug pressure.  My biggest chore is keeping the weeds and grass under control.

At least you guys in FL have flat land to work with.  If it were me, I would be laying it out so that I could fit a quad or some type of utility vehicle in the tree rows for moving mulch and harvesting fruit etc. 
Brad Spaugh

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As long as you save some money to set up a Paclobutrazol injector system into your irrigation.
-Josh

roblack

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It also matters what varieties of mango you are planning on growing. Some cultivars are vigorous growers, and would demand more attention and trimming. Others, with compact growth habits, would be easier to keep at optimal size, whatever that turns out to be for you. You could place smaller varieties to where they face the sun, and the fast growers behind them, so as to not block out sunlight.

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As long as you save some money to set up a Paclobutrazol injector system into your irrigation.

It痴 also illegal to use on mangos in the US.

250 is far too many for a half acre in Florida.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 02:51:40 PM by Squam256 »

mike rule

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In OZ the Queensland Govt. have been doing work on a Small Tree High Productivity Initiative..... On 3 blocks with the same 3 mango varieties they have planed high density 1250 trees per hectare 416 treesper hectare medium & small at 416 trees per hectare..... Project commenced in 2013....After 4 years the fruit picked yields were High 16 tons Medium 8.6 tons & small 4.7 tons......They also have been doing a project with espalier on trellis with an high density best yield of 46.9 tons per hectare after 5 years...... Still a way to go but looks like high density maybe the way of the future........ Mike

MameyDisco

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There's a benefit in plant diversity.

Consider some windbreak specimens or other plants you'll enjoy.
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fruitlovers

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I think it's doable. In India they have ultra high denisty plantings. You can see videos on youtube. It's doable if you use all very dwarf mango trees. Combine that with using an Australian style tatura espalier system. Tatura espalier will make it all hurricane proof. Very good in Florida! Take some classes in art of Japanese bonsai. Have large cheap work force like in India. And yes, consult your local mental health professional.  ;D
I thought my aims were really crazy, but you just made me fee relativelyl a lot more sane! Seriously though, what you have to ask yourself is what is my final goal? Why do i really want to squeeze in so many plants into such a small area? Do you want to have a commercial production, or is it just an ego thing?
Jeff brought up something very valuable to consider. Planting trees it is true, it's very uplifting. But that is the easiest part. The real work comes in maintaining all thosr trees. The planting part is maybe 1/100 of the work. Or maybe it's more like 1/1000  of the work involved? If you're really ready for that then go for it.
Oscar

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Probably doable but difficult you will have to have someone full time managing yr orchard. Here is my attempt at of 29 trees in an 50 x 40 w 3 meters spacing. After four years massive crops on most trees. I would scale back to 250 mango trees per acre and that痴 ultra high density.....mangos grow vigorously in California (15- 25 in 5-7 years) you just have to graft in our rootstock









« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 05:41:14 PM by JF »

pineislander

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I think it's doable. In India they have ultra high denisty plantings. You can see videos on youtube.
I have to wonder about those, I have watched them. From what I've seen, they do show a very high density, they do use Paclobutrazol, and for sure they will get great production the first years. What I don't see are how these orchards work out 5 or ten years down the road. Many of the videos are by nursery folks who sell trees. I know trees are probably cheap in India, and I know that nurseries are in business to sell trees so they have a vested interest in the idea. I honestly expect that at some point about 1/2 the trees will have to be removed. If their trees are cheap enough and especially if they can be transplanted to a beneficial use it might be a way to get a quick initial return and move on.
So far as planting 250 trees on 1/2 acre the best question asked so far seems to be why? What is the goal?

Squam256

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Quote
What I don't see are how these orchards work out 5 or ten years down the road.

A lot of them don稚.

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I say do it if you got the $$$$$!  You an also chop some of them down later if they get too crowded.  Or you can keep pruning it to keep it under a certain height.

For me I'm planting a whole bunch of cherimoya from seeds. so, no cost for me.  Some are in 2-3 trees together. 
I have a 1,000sq ft house with a small swim pool on 8300sqft lot.

And I got:
-10+ cherimoya trees producing, 20+ will be producing this year or next. And plan to add another 50 seedlings cherimoya. 
-30 mango graft trees, 1 only in ground, rest are in pots.
-20+ banana in ground
-several soursop in pots
-several rolina in pots
-10+ citrus in pots
-10+ guava trees
-couple dragonfruit patches
-1 giant lemon tree in ground
-the swim pool is for growing taro, got about 7 pots (10gal) , planning to add maybe another 20+ pots.
few other misc fruit trees
-1 giant palm tree and japnese maple- to me it is useless since it doesn't produce edible fruits
- planning to add some more...

I took advantage of the front yard as well.  Along the drive way are pot veggie like Luffa and gourd.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 12:47:05 PM by knlim000 »

Ulfr

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If it痴 about collecting cultivars I would consider multigrafting.

My house block is just over half an acre and I have plans for about 50 trees at 15x17ft spacing though some of those are planted tighter (citrus, atemoya etc). There is actually a lot of unused space but I also do veggies, nursery, workshop, chickens etc.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 03:34:25 AM by Ulfr »

mangomongo

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If it痴 about collecting cultivars I would consider multigrafting.

                                What he said.

johnb51

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No one has asked what seems to me the obvious question: Why?
John

FMfruitforest

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My phone tells me 21,780 sqft in 0.5 acres.
8 ft spacing would work
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fruitlovers

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No one has asked what seems to me the obvious question: Why?
Yes did ask exactly that question already:
Seriously though, what you have to ask yourself is what is my final goal? Why do i really want to squeeze in so many plants into such a small area? Do you want to have a commercial production, or is it just an ego thing?
Oscar

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But there is also a house, pool, driveway on that lot.

I'm in a similar situation, about 6/10 of an but with a smallish house, a tiny driveway, and no pool. I am just barely able to cram in somewhere around 80 to 90 trees, pruning each tree at least once every 2 years. And trust me, pruning that many trees is a LOT of work -- even with a semi-commerclal wood chipper.

If you're OK kissing most of your summer* weekends goodbye once the trees get mature, then you can pull off probably 70 trees over the long term?

(*summer in South Florida is the season alternates with "not-summer" and lasts 6 - 7 months)

My phone tells me 21,780 sqft in 0.5 acres.
8 ft spacing would work
Jeff  :-)

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Less is more. Diversity is key. Last comment above mine lays it out like several others. Good luck
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savemejebus

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But there is also a house, pool, driveway on that lot.

Most people seem to be forgetting that aspect of the equation. Other factors such as shape of the lot, planting restrictions in the front yard, presence of things like a septic tank, etc. can all affect the # of trees allowable. Either way, I'm with the majority opinion that 250 mango trees on 1/2 acre seems implausible.

We have approx .4 acres here with the benefit of a pie-shaped lot that allows for extra planting room. We're probably in the 40 - 50 tree range with arguable space for a couple more (if and when the kids' playset is removed), and even that is difficult to manage/keep pruned effectively.

DurianLover

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My phone tells me 21,780 sqft in 0.5 acres.
8 ft spacing would work

At just 4 feet trees would touch other. You need some space between trees, so trees have basically just 3.5 feet to extend their "wings". That's almost your arm's length.
What's the purpose here? Productive orchard or a field of unappealing looking mango sticks?

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Funny how the op asked the question and we are all posting and sharing ideas, yet no further word or questions answered by the op. Dropped a topic for discussion and dipped out, lol. Maybe he fell in one of his 250 holes? Someone send help!

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Sounds like you need to buy a larger piece of land but multiple trees per whole might be an option? As is discussed in this post

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=7c43459401cbce15775b70b5d37f463b&topic=17790.msg223866#msg223866
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 11:11:05 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

FruitFreak

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Re: 250 mango trees on my 1/2 acre property is this possibl
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 11:48:53 AM »
My lot has a house and a pool and is on the corner. Can that many fruit trees thrive when so densely planted???

I cant see mango "thriving" in such a restricted environment.
- Marley

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Funny how the op asked the question and we are all posting and sharing ideas, yet no further word or questions answered by the op. Dropped a topic for discussion and dipped out, lol. Maybe he fell in one of his 250 holes? Someone send help!
Yeah, really strange!  Possibly he just wanted to collect all the varieties he could, which would be better accomplished by multi-grafting as mentioned, but we'll never know, will we?  (I'd prefer planting 20-30 outstanding varieties, especially if I was intending to sell fruit.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 04:09:24 PM by johnb51 »
John

weiss613

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John yes you are exactly correct I have 30-32 varieties
Of only the top rated new varieties on the TFF. I love you guys and all your input over the years. I really have planted about 225 mango trees. Most are inground for 2 years. Only 20 will be inground this season for 3 -25 years plus I have about 32 avocado trees and 3 10 year old Sweetheart lychee trees.
Yes all layed out on a 1/2 acre corner lot with a 3400 sq FT house with a pool and patio. It痴 a nice neighborhood in Kendall of 120 homes with many rules and regulations from the homeowners association. If my yard doesn稚 look like a work of art I will get in trouble. They are all on my lawn which presents problems to overcome too. Here are answers to your main questions; I will be turning 70 this summer and I hate exercise like in gyms and treadmills. Nobody my age wants to go out and play like when I was a kid. Nobody wants to even play catch in the street or go bike riding or play touch football. Tennis and golf traumatize my shoulder and back. Planting trees and taking care of them many hours a day 52 weeks a year is my hobby and I go to sleep every night thinking about their potentials and what I can do when I get up to make my plot look like a work of art. AND IT DOES NOW!!!!
My philosophy is that I will stay as healthy as my beautiful healthy trees if I do everything to keep them healthy and my layout looking as perfect as humanly possible. When I first started planting I knew nothing and wanted a collection of many varieties but from all the info you guys and girls put into the TFF I changed course rapidly and decided to plant only the highest recommended varieties. I do have some old time classics like Golden Lippens and Hatcher. And I have some patented unique avocados which is a whole other discussion. I have 7 of the 100 gallon green Dade County trash cans that handle almost all my pruning debris so I rarely have to go to the local dump. I live in Kendall near Killian HS.
I love planting fruit trees and I love it compulsively like a crazy person and I知 not embarrassed to admit it. Presently all my fruit is given to friends and neighbors and relatives and mailed to friends and relatives. Everything else is given to the food bank. This is a labor of love and exercise and good deeds. If you want a video tour I値l make you one so you can judge for yourself or contact me and come over and see how crazy I really am. As to being to close together yes it痴 a source of great exercise to keep each tree seperated. I love the focus it gives me to keep every space perfect.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 11:11:37 PM by weiss613 »

fruitlovers

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John yes you are exactly correct I have 30-32 varieties
Of only the top rated new varieties on the TFF. I love you guys and all your input over the years. I really have planted about 225 mango trees. Most are inground for 2 years. Only 20 will be inground this season for 3 -25 years plus I have about 32 avocado trees and 3 10 year old Sweetheart lychee trees.
Yes all layed out on a 1/2 acre corner lot with a 3400 sq FT house with a pool and patio. It痴 a nice neighborhood in Kendall of 120 homes with many rules and regulations from the homeowners association. If my yard doesn稚 look like a work of art I will get in trouble. They are all on my lawn which presents problems to overcome too. Here are answers to your main questions; I will be turning 70 this summer and I hate exercise like in gyms and treadmills. Nobody my age wants to go out and play like when I was a kid. Nobody wants to even play catch in the street or go bike riding or play touch football. Tennis and golf traumatize my shoulder and back. Planting trees and taking care of them many hours a day 52 weeks a year is my hobby and I go to sleep every night thinking about their potentials and what I can do when I get up to make my plot look like a work of art. AND IT DOES NOW!!!!
My philosophy is that I will stay as healthy as my beautiful healthy trees if I do everything to keep them healthy and my layout looking as perfect as humanly possible. When I first started planting I knew nothing and wanted a collection of many varieties but from all the info you guys and girls put into the TFF I changed course rapidly and decided to plant only the highest recommended varieties. I do have some old time classics like Golden Lippens and Hatcher. And I have some patented unique avocados which is a whole other discussion. I have 7 of the 100 gallon green Dade County trash cans that handle almost all my pruning debris so I rarely have to go to the local dump. I live in Kendall near Killian HS.
I love planting fruit trees and I love it compulsively like a crazy person and I知 not embarrassed to admit it. Presently all my fruit is given to friends and neighbors and relatives and mailed to friends and relatives. Everything else is given to the food bank. This is a labor of love and exercise and good deeds. If you want a video tour I値l make you one so you can judge for yourself or contact me and come over and see how crazy I really am. As to being to close together yes it痴 a source of great exercise to keep each tree seperated. I love the focus it gives me to keep every space perfect.
If you enjoy doing it, which you obviously do, then go for it! As one friend said to me when i told her how crazy i thought my planting projects were, "yes it's crazy, but it's a good kind of crazy!:
Oscar

roblack

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I concur! "Feelings" make it all make sense. It's an experiment in mango mania, and I'm coming along for the ride. Pics please!

...and I'm glad you did not fall victim to one of your many holes. =)

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A nice area with a home owner's association -- that's probably going to be your biggest obstacle. At 15 foot spacing, the grass starts to die off once the canopies begin to touch. And for whatever reason, net worth and aversion to foliage tend to have a positive correlation. So what out for complainer neighbors. Good luck :-).
Jeff  :-)

johnb51

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It痴 a good kind of 田razy. I知 afflicted, as well, but not to the same degree. Hopefully it will keep
us young and healthy. I also do not like gyms and prefer the outdoors
John

achetadomestica

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Why not 350

Cookie Monster

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Jeff  :-)

weiss613

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I値l make a nice video tomorrow or Thursday and put it on YouTube with the link right here.
I hope you enjoy it. There are many discussions that can come from viewing this project. Eg. In 25-30
years many trunks will be in contact what then?
What if you get too old to do the necessary work?
What will it all look like 30 years from now if you stop caring for the project
in 5 years? Etc etc etc.

Cookie Monster

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Don't worry. As soon as the property changes hands, the owner will cut everything down. That's typically how it works.

I値l make a nice video tomorrow or Thursday and put it on YouTube with the link right here.
I hope you enjoy it. There are many discussions that can come from viewing this project. Eg. In 25-30
years many trunks will be in contact what then?
What if you get too old to do the necessary work?
What will it all look like 30 years from now if you stop caring for the project
in 5 years? Etc etc etc.
Jeff  :-)

weiss613

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Here is the link that shows the 250+ mango avocado and lychee trees on a 1/2 corner lot with a house pool and patio Feb 13, 2019. I made this to explain the topic and encourage
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 07:15:24 PM by weiss613 »

forumfool

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I don稚 see a link

shpaz

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This lady had a tiny plot with huge mature mango and avocados planted really close to each other:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd122RCGySg

Please skip to 5:20

weiss613

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I致e seen this video at least 2X痴 before but today looking at it from the perspective of the topic it seriously was a spiritual experience. Thank you for posting it it was soooo great!!
When they stood next to the 2 trees close together by the wall I could actually feel the texture of the mango tree he had his hand against. I have a neighbor with the exact same yard in Miami and it even has that exact same wall. When I first began my planting adventure about 20 years ago his yard looked like the one in this video. Poor guy got dementia a few years ago and now his wife has cleaned out a lot of the crowded stuff on the ground and now it looks better than ever. Once in awhile when there are no cars in the driveway I値l go back there and just look around and marvel at the atmosphere and beauty......always in fear that the dogs will start barking and give me away.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:31:39 AM by weiss613 »

 

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