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Author Topic: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California  (Read 1239 times)

hawkfish007

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Pardon me if it has already been discussed. I have been reading a lot on how FL turpentine rootstock doesn't do well in California due to weather, rainfall, soil pH etc. When do they start to deteriorate? All  of my trees came from Florida, I bought them in 15 -25 gallons and planted in ground Sep/Oct of last year. Most of them flushed, growing and flowering except for 1 that is in the front of the house where soil is highly compacted. You can see how green they are in the picture below. Should I be worried and is there a remedy?






« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:08:33 PM by hawkfish007 »

hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 11:59:32 AM »
Pardon me if it has already been discussed. I have been reading a lot on how FL turpentine rootstock doesn't do well in California due to weather, rainfall, soil pH etc. When do they start to deteriorate? All  of my trees came from Florida, I bought them in 15 -25 gallons and planted in ground Sep/Oct of last year. Most of them flushed, growing and flowering except for 1 that is in the front of the house where soil is highly compacted. You can see how green they are in the picture below. Should I be worried and is there a remedy?

Edit: 3 gallons from plantogram aren't doing as well as the 15 gallons and larger trees.



simon_grow

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 02:44:00 PM »
The droopiness will be very noticeable after 2-3 years.

Gummosis usually shows up after 1-3 years.

If you are growing vigorous varieties like Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, VP, etc... you will not have much issues other than droopiness.

It looks like you have a good layer of mulch and your trees look healthy so far.

After your trees first flowering, the branches that bloomed will drool unless you take measures to minimize droopiness.

Simon

hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 03:21:56 PM »
Yeah, I added 6-12" of mulch from local composting center in the entire section after planting. Added cedar wood chips on top. Below the chips is all soil now. So far, trees not showing any signs of gummosis or droopiness probably because of the short time they have been in ground.

simon_grow

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 06:36:34 PM »
Wait for another flush or two, the droopiness will come. The mulch helps a lot. The Florida trees seem very susceptible to Phomopsis. Phomopsis causes stem/branch dieback and symptoms usually occur during periods of colder weather. Florida trees are usually ok the first year but symptoms appear later on and are especially noticeable in certain varieties like Alphonso.

Dr Crane or Dr Campbell advised one of our members here that increasing Manganese can help with the Phomopsis. Vigorous varieties seem to outgrow the dieback and gummosis.

Without sending in tissue samples, it is extremely difficult to know exactly what organism is causing issues with Mangos trees grown in SoCal. A sample of diseased mango tree sent in for analysis showed Phomopsis and another fungi but I forget what the other organism was.

Simon

Coach62

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 06:56:53 PM »
Can he approach graft a different rootstock?  Would that at least alleviate the problem?
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gozp

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 08:39:53 PM »
I lost all my mango trees from FL few years back but after using abound on newly delivered trees from FL, i spray and drench them with abound. As well as drench with seaweed and powder & pellet mycorrizae...

So far so good. No noticeable gummosis or phomompsis(dieback) for close to 2 years now.... i know i still have a long way to go since my trees are still on the juvenile stage.

Im no expert, however, im jst sharing on what i had observed.


Here are the mango varieties i lost b4 infusing abound 15gal  carrie, 3 gal buttercream, 7 gal sweet tart, 3 15 gal lemon zests, 2 25 gal coconut cream & 3 gal guava & 3 gal taralay.

hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 09:03:03 PM »
What were the symptoms before the trees died?

gozp

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 09:58:10 PM »
Gummosis & dieback.

simon_grow

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 10:26:33 PM »
Can he approach graft a different rootstock?  Would that at least alleviate the problem?

I have tried this but the results were mixed so I donít recommend it. I would rather start with a rootstock that does perform well here.

For anyone using Abound, make sure you are following the recommendations and not applying it more than you should. Also make sure you are alternating it with other fungicides from a different group so that the organisms donít build up resistance.

If youíre using this product without knowledge of How to alternate it with fungicides from a different group, you probably shouldnít be using it. We could be creating superbugs that are resistant to Azoxystrobin.

Simon


hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 01:19:52 PM »
I spotted a single 5 gallon grafted Keitt on California rootstock at local Lowes for $50.98. Rootstock name isn't mentioned but it is from La Verne. Too bad, I already have an expensive Keitt from plantogram. So, we may see more and more varieties on Cali rootstock if demand persists.

gozp

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 02:13:45 PM »
Can he approach graft a different rootstock?  Would that at least alleviate the problem?

I have tried this but the results were mixed so I donít recommend it. I would rather start with a rootstock that does perform well here.

For anyone using Abound, make sure you are following the recommendations and not applying it more than you should. Also make sure you are alternating it with other fungicides from a different group so that the organisms donít build up resistance.

If youíre using this product without knowledge of How to alternate it with fungicides from a different group, you probably shouldnít be using it. We could be creating superbugs that are resistant to Azoxystrobin.

Simon

Absolutely. I used it once upon drenching a newly transplanted plant from Fl to kill any possible harmful microorganism as a precautionary measure. Nothing more. Nothing less.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:15:50 PM by gozp »

DSotM

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 05:46:52 PM »
I spotted a single 5 gallon grafted Keitt on California rootstock at local Lowes for $50.98. Rootstock name isn't mentioned but it is from La Verne. Too bad, I already have an expensive Keitt from plantogram. So, we may see more and more varieties on Cali rootstock if demand persists.

Which Loweís was this? Iím gonna be in l.a. and would love to pick one up

hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 05:56:43 PM »
It's quite far from LA, it's on 27847 Greenspot Rd. Highland, CA. I am sure other Lowe's will start selling grafted mango trees as well.

CA Hockey

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 08:10:23 PM »
This is my Florida fruit punch with seedling inarched last september. Ot is firmly attached. I should pinch off the new rootstock growth.



Mugenia

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2019, 08:57:50 PM »
There's a nursery near my place that carries some mangoes on La Verne rootstock. However, it's mostly Keit, Tommy Atkins, and Cogshall. Nothing fancy or exotic.

CA Hockey

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2019, 09:14:50 PM »
I had about 10 mangoes die spontaneously last year probably from gummosis. They were all in pots. It happened after the cold front late last February and March.

Death occured over the next 3-6 weeks with most trees showing droopy leaves that would slowly wrinkle followed by wrinkling and shriveling of the small branches. This shriveling worked its way towards the main branches and down the tree. I don't know if there was root damage and it caused the tree to die from the farthest reaches first or if the disease really did  start with the outside and progressed downwards... but I was able to get some growth by cutting way down on main trunk above graft union. The only tree to survive this way was kathy which is only now putting out little shoots. I have some kathy seedlings that I planted nearby that are outgrowing the original Florida tree.

So in summary it seems that when the California decline happens it is first noticed on the outer branches. It seems to follow prolonged periods of cold and/or wetness. Tree may be salvageable with extreme measures but with a low chance of success in my experience.

I did cut into the bark and the affected branches had lots of internal browning even in the bark that looked like it was unaffected. So if you cut back do so to clean green healthy wood and give yourself and the tree a good margin of healthy green tissue.

Khaled

hawkfish007

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Re: When does FL rootstock start to deteriorate after planting in California
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2019, 10:51:30 PM »
Here are a couple of  pictures of my Carrie, left pic is taken Sepí 18 after planting, and right pic is taken Jan Ď19. It appears carrie is much fuller with broader leaves than when planted. Is it a typical growth habit of Carrie?


Edit: I mixed it up, right pic is taken Sepí18 and left is taken Jan Ď19


« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 11:05:44 PM by hawkfish007 »

 

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