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Author Topic: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!  (Read 3414 times)

Yook

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Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« on: February 24, 2019, 08:37:05 PM »
I spent all winter researching plants to buy come spring for Florida 9B and feel like I settled on a good set of plants. I bought them this weekend.

They include:
2 avocados (lula and brogdon)
Pickering Mango
Cherry of Rio Grande
Loquat
Dwarf Everbearing Mulberry

I am now realizing that I put way more effort into selecting my plants than I did planning on how to plant them and I am a bit overwhelmed with the huge variety of advices given and wanted to run my thoughts by you all since you've been such a big help so far.

Please critique my plans at will. My first big question is, how long can I keep them in their nursery pots before they are in trouble? Some of them are decently big. Loquat is ~3/4" stem with a 1.5 gallon pot.

Avocados- I will plant them in ground in native soil(sand). I have heard building mounds is beneficial, but I do not have a good source of more native soil nearby or a truck. I figure if the trees have trouble I can replant them on mounds later.

Mango- I will repot the mango into a 15" pot until it gets older. I am having trouble finding much information on a good potting soil. Nobody sells Fafard 3B near me. Does a mixture of 1 parts each perlite, vermiculite, peat moss, and sand sound good? I saw someone else say a 1:1 good quality potting soil(example anyone?) and perlite is a good mix as well.

Mulberry, loquat, cherry: These guys are supposed to be pretty forgiving. I'll put them straight in the ground.

As for watering, I am pretty stumped. I don't have an irrigation system. Should I plan on setting up 6 soaker hoses and using each for 30 minutes once or twice a week?

I bought a few bags of shredded fir for mulch.

I realize there is a good amount of information already on the forums but I keep seeing conflicting accounts and am in analysis paralysis at this point. Thanks much.

forumfool

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 10:29:34 PM »
If you plan on putting them in the ground you should do it as soon as possible. Itís more difficult to take care of trees in pots as far as nutrients and water and root temperature go. You donít have to build your mound out of native soil you can use a planters mix or topsoil from a local landscaping supply company. Mulch around trees will help a lot until you get irrigation set up.

John Travis

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 10:35:47 PM »
Not a bad way to start with fruit trees. I would have added a jaboticaba into the mix, but I'm pretty partial to those. I hand water all my plants. I think it's helpful to go look at your plants on a regular basis and see how they are doing. You will get to know the needs of each one and will be better able to make decisions about fertilizing, pruning, etc.
John

achetadomestica

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 10:46:14 PM »
I waited 7 years and had my soil and water tested last year. My water is full of salt
and my soil's ph is 6.3. I assumed it was much higher because allot of forum member's
ph is. Well the results explained a few things.
 I live close to a spot in Lee County and
the county drops off free mulch 1-2 times a week. If you leave a pile for 6-12 months it
becomes compost. I also live close to a company that gets seeds from veggie growers and
I can get some killer potting soil with peat, vermiculite and perlite for free if I go do a little
work. I also go pick up free rabbit manure again with a little work. I use to get free horse
manure but I am trying to get worms to live around my trees and the ivomectin is not good
in the manure.
Anyway I go to great lengths to get some good dirt for my white sandy soil. I planted an achacha
the other day and I dug a hole in my yard about 25-30 gallons of sand and replaced with a potting soil
mix with rabbit manure and coffee grounds and some char I saved from burning trees after Irma
then I planted the 3 gallon plant and ended with a ring of decomposed
mulch and mouse shavings I get from a mouse farm that I left in my yard for 6 months to break
down. I will add more mulch 2-3 times a year and also I get coffee grounds from the local coffeeshop and I
add a scoop to every plant once a month.
If you want a quick answer go to Wal mart and buy a couple bags of decomposed cow manure and
a couple bags of potting mix for under $30 and dig a hole and mix the native sand and manure and
potting mix and add back to the hole and buy a couple bags of cypress mulch and put a big ring around the
trees. If you have standing water issues then you need to build a mound and it is very important.
My yard doesn't hold water and it is not an issue. If you are watering with city water with chlorine this
is going to be an issue especially the avocados, loquat, and COR and mango. The plants can stay in the
pots but you may have to water every day if they are crowded and don't hit them with all day direct sun.
 

 

Vernmented

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 05:30:54 AM »
Plant the avocados ASAP. An "easy" way to do it if you have a pickup is to buy a full yard of bulk potting mix from the landscape supply and dump it all onto one tall mound in an area without standing water. Blend the edges with the native soil and then mulch HEAVILY. At least a foot deep.

Repeat the process for the other avocado. They want large fertile mounds.
-Josh

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 05:56:09 AM »
Mulch works great on avocadoes but if you have a source of cut wood you can apply it as close as possible together and mulch thinly on top of that. I got more  than 3 years worth of mulch life that way and the trees enjoyed it. Some species will sprout of covered with mulch while green but dry wood is good. The ultimate simulation of a natural forest floor, use leaves and prunings too.


Vernmented

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 06:01:31 AM »
Mulch works great on avocadoes but if you have a source of cut wood you can apply it as close as possible together and mulch thinly on top of that. I got more  than 3 years worth of mulch life that way and the trees enjoyed it. Some species will sprout of covered with mulch while green but dry wood is good. The ultimate simulation of a natural forest floor, use leaves and prunings too.


Love it!
-Josh

Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 08:55:05 AM »
Also from Orlando over on the far east side(I don't consider it Orlando but the post office does so oh well). No advice on the avocados, neither the wife or I eat them. I have all of the rest.

Pickering since its a smaller mango I keep it in a pot for winter since they will freeze back without a lot of protection if we get another winter like last year. My in grounds that I do have are heavily mulched once a year and I alternate years of pine bark and free deliveries of a truckload of tree company ground up wood. Get on the list and be prepared for a full dump truck load in a year or so depending on where you live. We do have a nasty little weevil from the islands that will shred your leaves and apparently the roots too, and since we had a fairly warm winter this year they will be back in force. You will need a systematic for the roots and the leaves. I haven't been impressed with Bayer for dealing with leaf miners on citrus so I doubt it will have an effect on the super weevils. I use Adonis root drench on all of my mango and citrus as soon as they stop flowering. Otherwise mangos grow pretty decently in our areas aside from freak cold spells.

Cherry of Rio Grande- I have never been able to really succeed on this guy. It doesn't like our soil. Mine froze back first year I had it and recovered somewhat but has been a scrubby 2 foot tall bush for years. I am considering replacing it since it has done so poorly.

Loquats are unkillable unless you short them on water. Be prepared to wait a few years for fruit though.

Mulberries are also unkillable provided water. Be sure to prune heavily in the winter. They grow so much better. Adam over at Flying Fox has one he prunes and its one of the thickest bushes covered in fruit that I have ever seen.

Good luck, enjoy our sand, pests, weeds and so forth. By the way, weeds in our area care nothing about mulch. They will grow using the mulch as a medium and eventually work their roots into the soil under it. Or worse these nasty grass shoot things that happily spread through mulch on white runners and put their roots deep into the soil. They are next to impossible to remove permanently.

zands

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2019, 09:16:21 AM »
You did great on your mango and avocado choices. Pickering is very reliable for me so ...have confidence and proceed. Wood chip mulch and fertilizer! Brogdon and Lula are good choices because they cover 6 months. Your soil should be very sandy so fast draining. No need for mound plantings. This is for members in California with clay impervious soils.

Water with your garden hose a few times a week.      "Water is the best fertilizer" Harry Houseman said a few years ago.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 09:24:49 AM by zands »

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2019, 09:50:01 AM »
Really appreciate your time everyone. Iím feeling much better about things.

Two things Iím most unsure of still are what I should post the mango in and what my watering regiment should be.

For potting mix, I have seen others say miracle gro is no good. I canít find any potting soil at Loweís or the nearby landscaper supply that doesnít have fertilizer in it. I figure I will mix it 2:1:1 with perlite and coarse sand. Does anyone know of a decent bagged mix without fertilizer? Maybe mix my own bark chips, peat moss, and perlite?

So for watering, I keep seeing where trees need see watering via a slow trickle of water at the drip line. How can this be achieved without moving my house 90 degrees around the tree at a drip every 10 minutes?
Iím trying to wrap my head around how people do this without spending 4 hours once or twice a week.

Zands, Iím glad you approve of the cultivars. I took a while to think about the avocados. I think I hit the sweet spot for tasty cold hardy ones. Hopefully I can avoid scab on the lula.

Tropheus, I had actually read through your post history since we are in similar areas and


Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2019, 10:05:47 AM »

Tropheus, I had actually read through your post history since we are in similar areas. The cherry was a spur of the moment thing. Iíll put it in my front landscaped island and see how it does. It was only 10 bucks. I am banking on my loquat/ mulberry being bulletproof and enough TLC for the cado and mango to work out.

Vernmented and pine island, Iím thinking Iíll try my luck planting the cados level for now because time is of the essence and Iíve got no truck:/

John, I was thinking hard on jabotica but will go with muscadine instead since we are getting s little cramped for space.

Achetadomestica, I had set my mind early on not to amend my soil too much because I like the idea of the trees needing to survive there eventually anyways and like you said, it takes a long while to achieve any difference in the entire lawns composition. Will peat, perlite, and vermiculite alone make a good potting mix? I believe I found those components in the store.

Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2019, 10:58:36 AM »
A large number of my low lying trees, odd for FL but I do have low areas that collect water, that do not like wet feet I plant on mounds. Aside from cold they tend to do very well compared to ones I plant in flat ground areas. Maybe its just more loose soil? I have started doing a lot more temperate trees lately after last years winter so now I have pecans which seem to love it here on mounds. That winter was a real eye opener for me and has caused me to diversify my trees a bit.

Other ideas for you, figs do fairly well here in pots. Our soil is sandy as you know and because of nematodes which infest it, in ground planting of figs will lead to the death of the figs. Even LSU figs which are supposedly resistant cant cope. Great for planting in pots though. They don't take up much space and really don't care about winter so you don't have to move them. Just make sure to put their pots on bricks or something solid so they don't send roots into the ground.

RG Cherry does survive better than a Barbados cherry, which is one of the best tropical cherries I have had. Grew great until last winter killed it while sparing my low sitting RG. I might try another Barbados in a pot, they really are worth having. My in ground Surinam cherry was unaffected by the cold too and it has great flavor so that's an option for you. The RG to me is the inferior of the three main cherries.

chad6159

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2019, 11:36:20 AM »
I would definitely put the avocado on a mound. I never have standing water in my yard and I put in an avocado tree on the steepest graded part of my yard and the thing still got root rot.

This time, with my new avocado tree, I built up almost a foot above the ground, then put the tree on top of that. Then made a big mound around it and then mulched on top of that. From what I hear you really need to mound an avocado tree in Florida.   So far so good with my new avocado tree. We will see what happens during rainy season.

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2019, 12:39:03 PM »
Even if you don't have a truck you could always go to a big box store and get some bagged potting/raised bed mix (7-15$ a bag). I believe that would suffice in a pinch. It's going to be alot more costly than getting a truck load (about 35-40$ here) of good soil. Perlite and vermiculite can both be found at big box stores as well.
-Kris

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2019, 01:04:13 PM »
How much volume of topsoil would you estimate id need for two such mounds? Iím envisioning sort of a tapered cylinder of dirt 4 ft across and 1.5 ft high. Thatís about 19 cubic feet. Almost need two cubic yards then to make two. Seems like quite an undertaking. Would I need to mix vermiculite or sand in with the topsoil?

Any chance I could just do a drainage test by filling up a hole in the ground twice with water?

Iím also pretty short and am not looking forward to needing to pick fruit 10 feet in the air:/

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2019, 01:11:39 PM »
If you want to go that large just have some soil delivered. Usually a three yard minimum (In my area). Cheaper than bags though.
-Kris

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2019, 03:16:07 PM »
I have had most alll in the past in 9b

Cherry of Rio Grande about ten foot since I topped it and itís about to bloom

In some shade and doing well

Loquats grow too well and all the uncared for seedlings has increased the fruit fly pressure so I donít grow them any longer

My Brogdon is full of blooms but itís full grown but last season I planted a Lula, Day and Wurtz wither the latter blaming already

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2019, 03:35:24 PM »
I have had most alll in the past in 9b

Cherry of Rio Grande about ten foot since I topped it and itís about to bloom

In some shade and doing well

Loquats grow too well and all the uncared for seedlings has increased the fruit fly pressure so I donít grow them any longer

My Brogdon is full of blooms but itís full grown but last season I planted a Lula, Day and Wurtz wither the latter blaming already


Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 06:35:11 PM »
Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?
Big mistake in Florida to plant any Avocado anywhere not on a mound. Unless it was just neglected, most failed avocados mentioned here happen shortly after big rain events and were planted flat. During Irma even though I have all avocados on mounds more than 1 foot high some were lost which had been in place for years. The flooding was the sole reason why those trees died. I am sure that if asll hadn't been on mounds every tree would have drowned.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2019, 09:20:58 PM »
What size then should the mound be, and from this list of soils I can have delivered, which would you recommend?

Fill Dirt
Sand
Landscape Soil
Potting Soil
Top Dressing

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2019, 07:49:45 AM »
I wouldn't dare say which soil without looking. Potting soil definitely not, it will shrink down. Fill dirt might just be rocks etc. Something similar to the native soil would be best. You should put soil amendments on top. Don't put lots of organic matter in the mound soil. It will decompose and the tree will sink. The UF recommendations are pretty good, especially about stripping grass around the tree site. In the years after planting, expand the diameter of the mound and grass exclusion to keep it outside the tree drip line.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg213

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2019, 08:26:38 AM »
Now the UF website is saying I need to make the mounds at least 2í high! Does it matter if the mound slopes away to the ground? Would building a traditional stone encircled raised bed of similar size to the recommendations work?

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2019, 02:39:56 PM »
Iím having trouble finding a fertilizer or foliage spray which aligns with UF recommendations for specific component percentages for avocados or mangos. Is there a forum favorite for fertilizers? Hopefully I can use the same stufffor all my plants.

spaugh

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2019, 03:22:22 PM »
Now the UF website is saying I need to make the mounds at least 2í high! Does it matter if the mound slopes away to the ground? Would building a traditional stone encircled raised bed of similar size to the recommendations work?

Building a raised bed with circle pavers or stones etc is totally fine. 

Also agree with the suggestion above about not using potting mix.  Too much compost in it.  You want a fair amount of sand or small rocks and some loam in there.  If you were local I would gie you some DG soil. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:35:00 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2019, 03:45:54 PM »
Thanks Brad. My plan is to make a 1.5í high by 4 or 5í cylinder. Iíll use my native soil from a spot where my grass was already dead and hopefully be able to fill the crater with whatever I can find at a later date.

Any thoughts on fertilizer or spray? Iím about to go with miracle grow for citrus and avocados alongside  this southern ag citrus nutritional spray.


 

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