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Author Topic: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!  (Read 3426 times)

spaugh

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2019, 03:56:07 PM »
I dont use any sprays on avocado trees just soil application of fertilizer.  Depending on your budget and how many trees you have etc I would advise going for higher end organic fertilizers if you can.  Also I know FL has issues with nitrogen runoff if you live near waterways (algea blooms).  If you have that issue, slow release is a good option.  Or better yet organic fertilizer with non water soluable nitrogen.  You shouldnt really need to spray with fertilizers IMO but I dont live in FL.

Your newly planted trees dont really need any extra fertilizer right away also.  You can plant them and top dress with compost and top that with mulch and leave it for a while before worrying about fertilizer. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 04:04:10 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2019, 06:30:39 PM »
check with Howard Fertilizer.
8306 S Orange Ave
Orlando, FL 32809
Phone: 407-855-1841
Manager: Jeff Cotton
Email: jcotton@howardfert.com

I have had great results with a fertilizer they carry, Nutricote which is mainly for the nursery container trade. I am using it because it is a true 100% slow release fertilizer with micronutrients. Most others which are called slow release are only partially slow release and lots of that can be lost during the rainy season. I use the Nutricote Total 18-6-8  with micronutrients in a 180 day formulation.
It has been ideal for new trees and I did apply to an older set of avocado trees and it turned them right around to productivity.
Last cost was $57 for 50 lbs. Store it cool and dry maybe in a sealed bucket.

 https://www.arysta-na.com/Nutricote/Features.htm

https://www.arysta-na.com/Nutricote/files/NUT_18-6-8_PIS.pdf




Coach62

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2019, 08:32:42 PM »
Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?
Big mistake in Florida to plant any Avocado anywhere not on a mound. Unless it was just neglected, most failed avocados mentioned here happen shortly after big rain events and were planted flat. During Irma even though I have all avocados on mounds more than 1 foot high some were lost which had been in place for years. The flooding was the sole reason why those trees died. I am sure that if asll hadn't been on mounds every tree would have drowned.

Yook, PI is right. I lost several trees post Irma, all because of standing water.  Honestly to answer your question about how high to mound?  Iíd say about 1í above flood plane ideally. The main trees I lost to flood was avocado and peaches.  All of them in flood plane died. However, Irma was a really abnormal flood event.
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achetadomestica

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2019, 08:41:42 PM »
check with Howard Fertilizer.
8306 S Orange Ave
Orlando, FL 32809
Phone: 407-855-1841
Manager: Jeff Cotton
Email: jcotton@howardfert.com

I have had great results with a fertilizer they carry, Nutricote which is mainly for the nursery container trade. I am using it because it is a true 100% slow release fertilizer with micronutrients. Most others which are called slow release are only partially slow release and lots of that can be lost during the rainy season. I use the Nutricote Total 18-6-8  with micronutrients in a 180 day formulation.
It has been ideal for new trees and I did apply to an older set of avocado trees and it turned them right around to productivity.
Last cost was $57 for 50 lbs. Store it cool and dry maybe in a sealed bucket.

 https://www.arysta-na.com/Nutricote/Features.htm

https://www.arysta-na.com/Nutricote/files/NUT_18-6-8_PIS.pdf
Hi Jay
I found that nutricote at Diamond R in LaBelle for around the same price. I watched your video earlier.
It's really impressive what you are doing. I am lucky I saw your place before and can appreciate how you
have transformed the place.

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2019, 05:27:04 AM »
Last time I went to Diamond R they told me they had dropped that fertilizer so I found another supplier who delivers.
Howard Fertilizer is statewide.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2019, 06:09:02 PM »
I'll ask Jeff about the Nutricote, thanks!

I received my promix HP today and repotted the mango. I noticed that while the mango wasnt rootbound, it had some pretty compacted, almost claylike regions clinging to the larger root sections so I tried to break up these pieces and ended up with an almost bare-root tree. I planted this with the root crown just above the soil then piled on an inch of mulch without letting it touch the trunk. Was this the correct thing to do?


Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2019, 11:03:34 AM »
Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?
Big mistake in Florida to plant any Avocado anywhere not on a mound. Unless it was just neglected, most failed avocados mentioned here happen shortly after big rain events and were planted flat. During Irma even though I have all avocados on mounds more than 1 foot high some were lost which had been in place for years. The flooding was the sole reason why those trees died. I am sure that if asll hadn't been on mounds every tree would have drowned.


Yook, PI is right. I lost several trees post Irma, all because of standing water.  Honestly to answer your question about how high to mound?  Iíd say about 1í above flood plane ideally. The main trees I lost to flood was avocado and peaches.  All of them in flood plane died. However, Irma was a really abnormal flood event.


Thanks Coach. 1 foot high seems reasonable. Any thoughts on the diameter? Iím planning to build a stone circle raised bed something like 6 feet across but am worried this will act as a large container of sorts and eventually limit the tree once the roots reach the edge. Avocado roots normally grow more laterally than downwards right? Would they grow down and make it under the bed wall?

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2019, 06:53:51 PM »
six feet should last you for awhile. If you use the landscaping stones I suppose in years to come you could reset the stones at a larger diameter. I think that avocado has some deep roots for stability but definitely a fine feeder root system.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2019, 07:26:32 PM »
Makes sense, thanks Pine.

I came outside just now to see that my mango had wilted! I think I disturbed the roots too much in transplanting. I just wanted to make sure they weren't bound in compacted soil. The top 3 inches of new growth had drooped over completely. I trimmed off that part.

The soil is moist but not wet and I have had the plant in pretty much full sun. It is about a 3/4" caliper. Should I put it in partial shade while it recovers or is full sun still fine?

Anything else I can do to help it bounce back?

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2019, 03:00:43 PM »
Figured Iíd give an update and share a few more questions Iíve come across. Really appreciate the help guys.

Iíve planted the loquat, one avocado, and potted the mango.

My mango wilted after the transplant. I donít have a good feel for how much to loosen up the roots when i am transplanting and whether it is okay to leave compacted soil on the roots. The mango wasnít root bound but I broke up the clumps and it almost ended up bare root. Scary stuff. The loquat and brogdon were badly rootboune. I used a knife to cut 6 2 inch slits into the sides and bottoms and then loosened it a bit with my fingers.

My questions:

-Nothing has shown growth so far but I believe they are just setting up their new roots. Is this normal?
- I dug a big hole from the middle of my yard to use to build my mounds for the avocados. Below the topsoil of sugar sand, there is a pretty dense subsoil of sandy compacted decaying organic matter. Is this okay to use in the mounds? Do I need to break it up a lot?
- I performed a drainage test of sorts on the avocado mound where I filled up about a 15 gallon hole with water. It took about 45 minutes to drain and that was after I had already been wetting the soil to aid in settling. Is this quick draining enough? I donít have much to compare to.
- I saw some aphids and black tiny bugs on the avocado so I bought neem oil. Will I likely need anything else to fight bugs around here?

Thanks again.





Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2019, 03:23:16 PM »
I have never loosened the soil when planting mangos. Just make sure the soil stays moist but not waterlogged.

Neem(actual neem, not neem extract) is ok during our cool winters but when the temps start getting up about the mid 80s, you know, about 90% of the year, you wont be able to use it or any other oil. You really will need systematics to stop the weevils and most of the bad pests we have.

Loquats are pretty maintenance free. The worst you will get are going to be fruit flies which will take a large number of the fruit. Know nothing about avocado as far as pests go, but the neem warning still applies.

Loquats are fairly slow growing and only flush a few times a year, mango is the same way. Most trees do not immediately start putting out leaves when planted and a lot of trees in ground haven't started yet at all for the season. It is only just barely March.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2019, 03:45:51 PM »
Thanks tropheus. Any particular systematic you have seen work well?

Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2019, 03:56:18 PM »
Adonis, you can get it on amazon and mix it in a 5 gal bucket and poured around the roots.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2019, 10:54:04 AM »
That stuff looks pretty nasty. Iím surprised you can get it over the counter. Are you worried about it getting into the fruit or killing bees?

Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 12:03:07 PM »
You don't use it when they are flowering. When dealing with the myriad of pests we have in this horrid Ag zone there is no such thing as too powerful of a pesticide. You will find out shortly what I mean. Imadacloprid is pretty much manditory

Coach62

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2019, 04:54:39 PM »
Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?
Big mistake in Florida to plant any Avocado anywhere not on a mound. Unless it was just neglected, most failed avocados mentioned here happen shortly after big rain events and were planted flat. During Irma even though I have all avocados on mounds more than 1 foot high some were lost which had been in place for years. The flooding was the sole reason why those trees died. I am sure that if asll hadn't been on mounds every tree would have drowned.


Yook, PI is right. I lost several trees post Irma, all because of standing water.  Honestly to answer your question about how high to mound?  Iíd say about 1í above flood plane ideally. The main trees I lost to flood was avocado and peaches.  All of them in flood plane died. However, Irma was a really abnormal flood event.


Thanks Coach. 1 foot high seems reasonable. Any thoughts on the diameter? Iím planning to build a stone circle raised bed something like 6 feet across but am worried this will act as a large container of sorts and eventually limit the tree once the roots reach the edge. Avocado roots normally grow more laterally than downwards right? Would they grow down and make it under the bed wall?

I didnít say 1í. I said 1í above flood would be ideal. Same for peaches. If you can mound up above whatever a realistic flood level is. My citrus, and oddly enough my cactus fruits did fine in the flood.
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Bruce

Coach62

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2019, 04:58:20 PM »
Like said above. Imidacloprid. Loweís is the cheapest place. Cheaper than amazon, plus 5% off if you use their credit card.
www.ableinspector.com

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pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2019, 05:59:18 PM »
You don't use it when they are flowering. When dealing with the myriad of pests we have in this horrid Ag zone there is no such thing as too powerful of a pesticide. You will find out shortly what I mean. Imadacloprid is pretty much manditory
I've only needed Imadacloprid for citrus leafminer, once. No other fruit trees at my place have needed it. It is a neonicotinoid which is hard on bees. So long as my trees continue to grow and increase in size I can tolerate some leaf damage.

Tropheus76

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2019, 07:17:20 PM »
I understand with the size of your grove but not sure how it survives all the weevils that have come up from the south. Things shredded a lot of my specific mango trees, citrus, and all spice and a few other individual trees. Only specific mangos though, some right next to the afflicted ones were not even touched. Bastards loved my Zills varieties. They ripped through my neighbor's farm too although we he let them roam, the chickens had a blast.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2019, 09:54:16 PM »
Great to hear Phil. How did you go about planting your avocados? Are you on mounds?
Big mistake in Florida to plant any Avocado anywhere not on a mound. Unless it was just neglected, most failed avocados mentioned here happen shortly after big rain events and were planted flat. During Irma even though I have all avocados on mounds more than 1 foot high some were lost which had been in place for years. The flooding was the sole reason why those trees died. I am sure that if asll hadn't been on mounds every tree would have drowned.


Yook, PI is right. I lost several trees post Irma, all because of standing water.  Honestly to answer your question about how high to mound?  Iíd say about 1í above flood plane ideally. The main trees I lost to flood was avocado and peaches.  All of them in flood plane died. However, Irma was a really abnormal flood event.


Thanks Coach. 1 foot high seems reasonable. Any thoughts on the diameter? Iím planning to build a stone circle raised bed something like 6 feet across but am worried this will act as a large container of sorts and eventually limit the tree once the roots reach the edge. Avocado roots normally grow more laterally than downwards right? Would they grow down and make it under the bed wall?

I didnít say 1í. I said 1í above flood would be ideal. Same for peaches. If you can mound up above whatever a realistic flood level is. My citrus, and oddly enough my cactus fruits did fine in the flood.

Oh my mistake. I figured since everything is close to flat near me except the retention ponds that flood level was a couple inches above ground. I made the mound in the picture above over a foot and a half high expecting it to settle some and there's a flood drain in the lake right nearby so I think I'll be okay.

And I researched imadacloprid today, seems like it's not as scary as I had thought. I saw reports that it is half as toxic as caffeine and hasn't shown signs of chronic toxicity or being carcinogenic.

Appreciate the advice

Coach62

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2019, 06:03:25 PM »
The mound in that pic is probably ok. Like PI said, maybe add a bit of soil from time to time to make it extend farther.
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Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2019, 08:36:52 PM »
Hey guys, figured I'd update with a couple questions I've come up with in the past month or so.

Everything except the mulberry is in the ground. The loquat opened up its newest leaves and the muscadine shot off its first green bud in the past few days!

The avocados haven't shown any growth and are losing ~5 leaves a day but I'm assuming that's still transplant shock. Does leaf drop and yellowing of individual leaves usually indicate trouble?

The mango hasn't grown, but the leaves perked up a couple days ago when they had been drooped since transplant.

How are you all watering? I walk around the yard every morning with a hose and dig around with my finger in the soil(it looks like swiss cheese for some plants) then make an uneducated decision about whether to spray around the drip line for a minute or so. I have heard of people sticking screwdrivers in the soil to test moisture but don't really see how that works(something about wet or dry soil being easier to penetrate). Are there soil moisture meters that work well?

I have heard that it is much better to water infrequently and deeply with something like a soaker hose but I'm having trouble envisioning how I would set up soakers around my property without it taking me hours to water everything, needing to come out every 30 minutes to hook up the hose to a different tree.


Will osmocote work well as an all purpose fertilizer?

pineislander

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2019, 07:14:47 AM »
Leaf drop could be stress but Avocado is semi-deciduous and will drop leaves during this time of year before or after spring leaf flush and flowering. Osmocote is good. You can expect a few months for trees to establish, deep watering is better a minute or so might not be enough as it gets hotter.
Here is a simple irrigation install for trees:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGltbFrUEsk

Typical irrigation supply online but you can get supply locally near Orlando.
https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/

you can easily bury hoses a few inches below grass line using a 3" wide trenching shovel. Beware to not cut existing underground cables and water lines.

Yook

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Re: Went Overboard Buying, Help Me Plant Please!
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2019, 07:07:25 PM »
Just wanted to give a quick update. Everything has started growing and Iím very hopeful about the progress. Thank you to everyone for the great advice.


 

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