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Author Topic: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(  (Read 665 times)

TheWaterbug

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Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« on: March 03, 2019, 02:00:22 AM »
About 2 months ago I bought a box of Ataulfo mangoes from my local 99 Ranch market for the specific purpose of planting their seeds and grafting onto them later. I much prefer the Indian style mangoes, but I've been told that Manila rootstocks work better in California.

I put more than a dozen into various pots and/or jars of water, on my counter on a heat mat, outside in the open, and outside in a little greenhouse, and after 2 months I have only two surviving seedlings, both doubles. One of them has a 4" primary that looks pretty good, but its fraternal twin has only one leaf:






The second seedling is a pair currently less than an inch tall, but otherwise looks pretty good (I'll post a photo tomorrow, when it's light).

The other 10+ seeds either failed to come up at all, or else sent up a shoot that stalled or died. Here's what those look like:



I had 4-5 of these come up with two tiny leaflets that never grew, and then the whole thing withered, turned black, and died.

I tossed out all of these dead ones today, and most of them had 4-5" of roots going down, and when I broke the seeds apart I could often see shoots with leaves curled up inside.

Is this a common problem with polyembryonic seeds? Or did I not wait long enough? Or am I just doing this at the wrong time of year? Or am I doing something else wrong?


I put another 8 seeds in the dirt today . . . .
Sunset 23/USDA 11a, Elev. 783', Frost free since 8,000 BC. Plagued by squirrels, gophers, and peafowl, but coming to terms with it!

FMfruitforest

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 06:18:10 AM »
How long did you leave them in water? Could it be root rot. 

spaugh

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 11:10:41 AM »
You are doing it wrong.   ;D

Its too cold outside for one thing.  And everything looks really wet in those pics.  The cup of water and toothpicks, forget it.   Dont do that. 

Use potting mix from the store and put them outside.  In July.
Brad Spaugh

zephian

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 12:13:23 PM »
I've had success with multiple varieties germinating in paper towels.
-Kris

TnTrobbie

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2019, 12:42:38 PM »
I've germinated many in moist paper towels in zip lock bags, but Ataulfos have the lowest success rates. The ones that do sprout they die about 2-3 months after transferring to soil medium.
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gozp

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2019, 04:02:04 PM »
You are doing it wrong.   ;D

Its too cold outside for one thing.  And everything looks really wet in those pics.  The cup of water and toothpicks, forget it.   Dont do that. 

Use potting mix from the store and put them outside.  In July.








For some reason my mango seedlings seems to be doing fine outside unprotected planted with 100% dirt & potting mix as mulch dressing.  & were germinated outdoors.😎
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 05:05:20 PM by gozp »

simon_grow

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2019, 05:36:19 PM »
The Monoembryonic seedlings grow faster. Also, many members get confused with the generic “Manilla” mango label.

For growers in SoCal that want a good rootstock, I highly recommend the LaVern Manilla rootstocks from Home Depot. This is different than the Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne Mangos that you pick up at the supermarket. The LaVern Manilla has been used for a long time here in SoCal and it adapts to our soil and climate very well.

The generic Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne seedlings also work but they grow slower than the LaVern Manilla and they also grow slower than the Indian Monoembryonic varieties like Kent, Haden and Tommy Atkins.

If you want a Polyembryonic mango variety that grows fast and can adapt to our souls and climate, go with NDM. It takes off once it gets established.

Simon

spaugh

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2019, 09:26:03 PM »
You are doing it wrong.   ;D

Its too cold outside for one thing.  And everything looks really wet in those pics.  The cup of water and toothpicks, forget it.   Dont do that. 

Use potting mix from the store and put them outside.  In July.








For some reason my mango seedlings seems to be doing fine outside unprotected planted with 100% dirt & potting mix as mulch dressing.  & were germinated outdoors.😎

Germinated in winter?

Waterbug, my point which maybe wasnt clear is its better to start the seeds in summer so the plant has plenty of heat to get it started.  Your seeds have some energy when they sprout but stall out when immediately put out in the cold.  Or probably wont sprout at all if put out in winter.  Start them in July when mangos are coming in season and you have 6 months for the plant to get going before it has to deal with our cold winter.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 09:28:58 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Raulglezruiz

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 09:14:21 AM »
Don't know why you call Ataulfo "Manila" in CA, there's Ataulfo & Manila ( not the one in CA) in Mexico both good mangos both both very different from each other..
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simon_grow

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 09:52:00 PM »
Raul, in the supermarkets here in SoCal, “Manilla” is often used as a generic term for the Polyembryonic kidney bean shaped mango that is green when not ripe and turns to a yellow color when ripe. These types of Mangos are generally sweetest when allowed to get a bit wrinkly.

Simon

zephian

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 10:45:35 PM »
Now I wonder if my wife actually likes manialla, or if they are autalfo in disguise. :P
We usually but 'manilla' but the case in asian supermarkets when theyre in season... I have multiple seeds growing here in norcal. They overwintered fairly well and should start pushing growth here soon..
-Kris

spoons

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 12:28:46 AM »
The Monoembryonic seedlings grow faster. Also, many members get confused with the generic “Manilla” mango label.

For growers in SoCal that want a good rootstock, I highly recommend the LaVern Manilla rootstocks from Home Depot. This is different than the Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne Mangos that you pick up at the supermarket. The LaVern Manilla has been used for a long time here in SoCal and it adapts to our soil and climate very well.

The generic Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne seedlings also work but they grow slower than the LaVern Manilla and they also grow slower than the Indian Monoembryonic varieties like Kent, Haden and Tommy Atkins.

If you want a Polyembryonic mango variety that grows fast and can adapt to our souls and climate, go with NDM. It takes off once it gets established.

Simon

Thanks for confirming my findings about ataulfo.  I will no longer plant them.  Very weak Rootstock compared to Kent and Keitt.  My only gripe about Kent is they are suseptible to anthracnose on the leaves.

I’d like to get my hands on some corriente seeds as i year they’re ideal in SoCal.

simon_grow

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Re: Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 07:19:23 PM »
My recommendation for growers in SoCal is to plant a variety of mango seeds, both Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic. Remember that soil and climate can be very different from location to location and a particular seedling may perform well at my location but perform horribly at your location.

Some of the dated publications from CRFG make broad categorical assumptions that may or may not still hold true. For example, they mention that the Indian race of Mangos is intolerant of humidity and is susceptible to Mildew.

I also don’t recommend Keitt seedlings anymore because of some fungal issues I’ve experienced with them.

In summary, just plant as many diverse seeds as you can get your hands on. In the Winter, it is best to start seeds with bottom heat. If starting seeds in warmer weather, I’ve found that seeds planted directly into the ground at their permanent location and not moved, perform the best.

I hypothesize that the tap root helps it adapt but that’s just purely from my observation and backyard experiments. Potted plants can easily get root circling, J root, nutrient lock and if up potted in correctly or too late, can have detrimental affects on the overal health and vigor of the plant.

Simon

 

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