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Author Topic: Variegated Poncirus  (Read 683 times)

Florian

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Variegated Poncirus
« on: March 06, 2019, 05:16:49 AM »
I was browsing citrus pages when I saw this picture of a variegated Poncirus.


Is there any information available? Is there anyone growing variegated Poncirus?
Thanks!

shiro

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 01:00:19 PM »
Florian This link gives you the answer.
Unfortunately in French.

http://www.fruitiers-rares.info/articles63a68/article67-semis-Poncirus-trifoliata-et-variete-monstrosa.html

So I allow myself to quickly translate the most important.
The origin of this is genetic but most often the influence of a fungus Aspergillus flavus and Alternaria tenuis present on the seed coat.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:02:03 PM by shiro »

Ilya11

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 01:52:16 PM »
No, I believe this is a genuine chimeric plant.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

shiro

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 02:23:55 PM »
So from what Origin the chimeric factor ?

The mutation does not so much be induced by fungi ?



Florian

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 04:10:25 PM »
Florian This link gives you the answer.
Unfortunately in French.

http://www.fruitiers-rares.info/articles63a68/article67-semis-Poncirus-trifoliata-et-variete-monstrosa.html

So I allow myself to quickly translate the most important.
The origin of this is genetic but most often the influence of a fungus Aspergillus flavus and Alternaria tenuis present on the seed coat.


Thanks for the link. French is fine, I am Swiss after all..;-).

But whose plant is this chimera above (or whatever it is)? I would like to learn more.

shiro

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 05:13:20 PM »
The plant remains of the Poncirus trifoliata.
But it has mutated (became a chimeric plant) by the contaminating effect of the fungus.
Finally this is the answer I can give you .
Same answer here :
 (http://www.agrumes-passion.com/poncirus-citranges-porte-greffes-rustiques-f67/topic471.html)

But the chimeric origin may be other (http://greffer.com/chimeres/chimeres.pdf) although rarely the case in the Poncirus.
After I remain open to other possibilities of chimeric induction (grafting, etc.).
If ILYA11 has documentation or other that can tell us more about this type chimera it would be very interesting because it is pretty beautiful a variegated poncirus.
Because in general it does not live long, so if there is a way to get some durable it would be interesting.

Ilya11

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 03:39:41 AM »
Yes, it is well known fact that variegated citrus seedlings are due to the fungal infection of one of the three embryonic layers. Fungus is interfering with chlorophyll synthesis,but this is not a mutation. It is not resulting in periclinal stable chimera, since fungus is either cured or spreads to other layers. True chimera due to the gene mutation are extremely rare, usually they arise as variegated branches in adult plants. In Japan they selected Snow Dragon poncirus that is true pereclinal chimera.


http://florawonder.blogspot.com/2014/05/return-to-carolina.html?m=1
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lebmung

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 05:15:33 AM »
From 60 seedling that came out in December, one of them looks exactly the same. Variegated,  I am not sure if this is a mutation or is from a fungus.
I will grow it separately and see how it goes.

shiro

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 08:15:49 AM »
So Ilya11 here you think it's a real chimera or that it's the cause of a fungus ?

I must say that it is difficult to differentiate the true chimera from a false.

Mutation or not mutation difficult to know.
At worst it will eventually die.



Ilya11

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 08:22:58 AM »
What I see on the photo posted by Florian is  a mature plant with side branches. Usually infected seedlings either overcome disease or die at very early stages.
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                       Ilya

Laaz

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2019, 08:12:07 AM »
The first photo I believe is mine. The plant died when I tried to transplant it years ago.

Florian

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 10:45:25 AM »
 Thank you, Laaz. How did you get it in the first place? Was it from seed?

Sylvain

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2019, 07:05:15 AM »
> The first photo I believe is mine.
Indeed it is. It is written...
http://citruspages.free.fr/trifoliates.html

Laaz

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2019, 10:13:05 AM »
No, I got it as a bubstick from Bonnie Childers. I believe he said the original tree was destroyed.

Laaz

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 10:13:39 AM »
Thanks Sylvain.

shiro

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2019, 10:30:26 AM »
So there are four possibilities.
1) He is too fragile from the beginning and dies quickly.
2) It is a little stronger is survival with disease without beating it, and is more fragile than another.
3) He can beat the disease and therefore should no longer have a symptom of this disease.
4) This is a real chimera.

A few questions.

1) If it is a real chimera in this case I am curious to know what is the chimeric factor producing this effect ?
2) What happens if grafting on another resistant subject ?
3) What happens if a resistant subject is grafted on it ?

Ilya11

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Re: Variegated Poncirus
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2019, 06:09:13 PM »
1) If it is a real chimera in this case I am curious to know what is the chimeric factor producing this effect ?
Somatic mutations in genes responsible  for chlorophyll production.
If the state is not stabilized by eventual emergence of  periclinal chimera  with  only one embryonal layer affected, the plant will either become entirely green or dye.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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