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Author Topic: Citrus tachibana  (Read 758 times)

Ilya11

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2019, 03:32:59 PM »
Inversion should be rather common in Bucharest that is situated not far from Carpathian mountains.
Other nearby European cities like Budapest, Bratislava, Sophia, Vienna, Belgrade have it quite often.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Inversion_(meteorology)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 03:35:10 PM by Ilya11 »
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lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2019, 05:38:35 PM »
Inversion rarely occurs here during the winter. Sunny but cold winters. Very different from Budapest where is humid and foggy.
In the Carpathins it does occur often because air gets trapped in valleys and Transylvania.

Ilya11

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 05:56:30 PM »
Just try to measure the temperature at the ground  and at two meters high  during winter anticyclone  , you will see that is quite common.
Inversion in București

At my place, far from the mountains, the temperatures at lower part of my property could be  3░C lower than at the highest point with 5 m of altitude difference.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 06:18:53 PM by Ilya11 »
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lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 07:07:05 PM »
I only measured the soil temperature and it's always higher than air temperature.
The article is about another region. Yes over there it happens all the time. But here in Bucurest it occurs rarely. 
It's in the plain and strong cold wind comes from East or warm wind from south. Near the mountains and inside the plains it can be like -15 on top of the mountain 2500m and down in valleys and depressions -25. But not here only rarely ,  not much fog either. We don't have the oceanic influence like in France.

Ilya11

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2019, 04:03:15 AM »

The article is about another region. Yes over there it happens all the time. But here in Bucurest it occurs rarely. 
The article  describes winter inversion at   Aurel-Vlaicu International airport (București Băneasa) situated 7 km from downtown Bucharest.
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Marcin

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2019, 06:14:28 AM »
High grafting on trifoliate is advised by J. Stewart Nagle in Citrus for the Gulf Coast. It is said to reinforce winter dormancy of the entire plant.

lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2019, 07:08:23 AM »

The article is about another region. Yes over there it happens all the time. But here in Bucurest it occurs rarely. 
The article  describes winter inversion at   Aurel-Vlaicu International airport (București Băneasa) situated 7 km from downtown Bucharest.

The study uses data among other stations to make a model for Moldova where indeed this happens often.
It's so much as in the morth. Sometimes it happens then the newspapers star to write. Like it happens with freezing rain with was an vent not seen for many years.
"The low altitude respectively 91 m Bucharest and 43 m to Odessa, and the high frequency of warm and moist advection (Lolis et al 2012) results in a small thickness of inversion layers."

lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2019, 07:12:33 AM »
High grafting on trifoliate is advised by J. Stewart Nagle in Citrus for the Gulf Coast. It is said to reinforce winter dormancy of the entire plant.

This makes sense more then inversion.

Ilya11

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2019, 09:55:07 AM »
One does not exclude another, increased dormancy prevents frostbites that usually occur in a lower part of the trunk due to the reversed temperature gradient.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 02:20:39 PM by Ilya11 »
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Sylvain

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2019, 10:04:42 AM »
Lebmung, it seems you don't know what is "inversion" nor "infrared radiation". You are always speaking of cold winds but inversion occurs only when there is no wind but clear sky. There are two ways to get colds. You speak of one way and Ilya speaks of the other.
The best would be to read few things about it.

> The soil is hotter than the air
yes, this is usually true. The frost damages are very rare in the first 5 cm (2inc). But when in the 'inversion conditions' the temperature at 10 cm are much lower than at  1 meter.
This effect is often called inverse greenhouse effect.
Cold continental climate is the perfect place for inversion conditions. Romania cannot be an exception...

lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2019, 05:12:15 PM »
Ok so how many degrees difference are we talking about between temperature at 5cm and 1m high?
In this case would be easier to just warp the trunk with coconut blanket.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2019, 06:33:21 AM »
Lebmung,

In any case it is a good idea to protect the trunk if high crafted on PT. Inversion is most likely linked to clear and sunny weather at day. The sun warms up the trunk which often results in severe cracks in the bark. Theses cracks often kill a tree. I had cracks on a high crafted Citrumelo and only PT trunk was affected. Citrumelo itself was not harmed at all. All cracks appeared on sun exposed parts. I was lucky my tree did not die but recovered quite well.

Radoslav

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2019, 07:59:47 AM »
Lebmung,

In any case it is a good idea to protect the trunk if high crafted on PT. Inversion is most likely linked to clear and sunny weather at day. The sun warms up the trunk which often results in severe cracks in the bark. Theses cracks often kill a tree. I had cracks on a high crafted Citrumelo and only PT trunk was affected. Citrumelo itself was not harmed at all. All cracks appeared on sun exposed parts. I was lucky my tree did not die but recovered quite well.

There is more than hundred years old tradition in my country to paint trunks of apple trees, plum trees etc.  in white with lime to avoid cracking of bark because of different temperatures during early spring days and nights. (To reflect the sunlight)


« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 08:03:14 AM by Radoslav »

Sylvain

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2019, 08:53:17 AM »
It has been discussed on the old forum ( http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com), using latex paint, it is said to work well.
I wanted to try but didn't find any latex paint in France!
What is traditionally used  is chalk paint but we cannot use it for citrus because it increases the pH of the soil.

Radoslav

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2019, 09:44:27 AM »
Traditinaly we use extinguished lime,
In shops here we can buy  "LacBalsam« Baumstamm-Schutzfarbe wei▀" special flexible white painting
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Etisso-LacBalsam-White-Trunk-Protection/dp/B076KPGSN4
Btw.:
Latex paints are realy common here in  shops, strange that you cannot find any in France,

kumin

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2019, 10:42:09 AM »
Tollens sells Acrylic water based paints. Latex paint is often labeled "Acrylic Latex". I'm not positive it's the same, but it might be worth checking out.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2019, 11:26:28 AM »
Now I use reflecting foil. works well and protects the trunk from cold radiation aswell.

lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2019, 06:18:05 AM »
Lebmung,

In any case it is a good idea to protect the trunk if high crafted on PT. Inversion is most likely linked to clear and sunny weather at day. The sun warms up the trunk which often results in severe cracks in the bark. Theses cracks often kill a tree. I had cracks on a high crafted Citrumelo and only PT trunk was affected. Citrumelo itself was not harmed at all. All cracks appeared on sun exposed parts. I was lucky my tree did not die but recovered quite well.

This is about another issue. We were talking about inversion.
About solar radiation, it's true what you say. But I would use a thick breathable coconut trunk protection.

Sylvain

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2019, 02:35:10 PM »
Thank you Radoslav and kumin. I was looking for latex paint but in France it refers only to true latex.
As you made me understand that latex also means acrylic it has been very easy to find.  :)

Sylvain

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2019, 02:44:05 PM »
> Ok so how many degrees difference are we talking about between temperature at 5cm and 1m high?
about 3░C (~6░F) but in a very flat place or a bottom of valley it can be more.
You see, it cannot be neglected.

lebmung

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2019, 06:54:23 PM »
Yes in valleys and open field. But probably not in cities.
I didn't think about this before to be such a difference, next water I will make some tests with a temperature logger.

Ilya11

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2019, 04:18:49 AM »
Streets in many urban environments are analogs of mountain valleys  and urban inversion is  aggravated by atmospheric  pollution.
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Radoslav

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Re: Citrus tachibana
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2019, 07:28:39 AM »
Thank you Radoslav and kumin. I was looking for latex paint but in France it refers only to true latex.
As you made me understand that latex also means acrylic it has been very easy to find.  :)

No, there are
Acrilic colours based on Acrylic resin
Latex colours  based on polyvinyl acetate
Acrilic Latex colours mix ?

 

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