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Author Topic: Calamondin x Poncirus  (Read 1417 times)

Till

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Calamondin x Poncirus
« on: December 09, 2019, 01:44:58 PM »
Hello,

I just want to share with you a picture of a Calamondin X Poncirus hybrid that I created. It is slow growing but look healthy. This plant, and a very tiny sibling, were the only seedlings of that year that grew under hot summer conditions in full sun and in mostly moist loamy soil. Root development was good. No signs of root rot at all. They did not grow well in half shadow and under cool conditions. Yet, they had no root problems under these conditions, either. The last growth, as you see, was not finished before winter. That is the reason for the yellow leaves.
Here the picture of the bigger seedling:


I had a few more Calamondin x Poncirus hybrids. But not all survived. Some germinated readily but grew only to the point when all nutritients from the seed were consumed. No obvious root problems. But finally they died. I suppose a genetic reason.
I am though very encouraged to try this type of cross again. Although Calamondin is highly polyembryonic I received some monoembryonic seeds and hybrid embryos from polyembryonic seeds. My pollination technics was quite superficial. I did not castrate the flowers. I did not even care that the flowers were newly opend and fresh. Bees were present all the time. But still I got a handfull hybrids from perhaps 30 fruits.

I also tried to pollinate Limquat with Poncirus. That also worked well. I had about three hybrids. But they died. The roots were too sensitive. But under different conditions I might have saved them.

Why did a do these crosses? Well, my idea was to produce something like a Citrangequat with higher Poncirus influence. I want to see to what degree Kumquat genes can suppress the bad taste of Poncirus. And I hope that my hybrids inherit from both Poncirus and Kumquat the feature that they bloom before shooting. If they do that would mean one more month for the fruits to ripe, that is one more month for fruit development before winter comes. I read it is hardly possible to cross Kumquat with Poncirus directly. So I tried Kumquat hybrids.


« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 01:50:03 PM by Till »

Walt

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2019, 03:33:01 PM »

"Why did a do these crosses? Well, my idea was to produce something like a Citrangequat with higher Poncirus influence. I want to see to what degree Kumquat genes can suppress the bad taste of Poncirus."

Ponciris+ is available in Europe.  Why aren't you using it?
Thanks for sharing your results.  I will be happy when you can report on flavor, size, and how long to fruit.

Till

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2019, 04:43:41 PM »
I know about Poncirus+ but I do not have it myself. It is so difficult to get good varieties and takes some time to get flowers from them.
I have used a quite hardy Poncirus in my garden. My parents say that the fruits from which it was sown tasted much like a lemon.
I used for nearly all subsequent crosses a relatively tasty Poncirus that I found in an botanical garden. Should also be a good choice. First results the coming year. Seeds have not yet germinated.

tesilvers

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 07:47:07 AM »
Hello Till,
Coincidentally, I did the same cross in Spring 2019 but only on three flowers of calamondin. I got seven seeds and so far it looks like I'll have two hybrid seedlings. They are only a few months old:





It will be interesting to see how much variation there will be among our hybrids.
Best wishes, Tom

tesilvers

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2020, 01:01:57 PM »
It's hard to tell from these pictures but I've got a third hybrid seedling now. There were two seedlings from this particular seed and the runty one has very small but trifoliolate leaves emerging. So, the totals now are three hybrid and five nucellar seedlings.




Till

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 03:58:14 PM »
Gratulation, Tom! Yes, it will be very interesting, how much variation our seedlings will have.
I have placed mine in the wintergarden now and it starts growing. I want to push it a bit this year that I can better see how it develops.

tesilvers

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2020, 10:20:38 PM »
Two current pictures of the first (biggest) seedling:





The other two hybrids aren't looking so promising.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2020, 05:58:57 PM »
Keep in mind monoembryonic does not necessarily always mean the seed is zygotic. It could still turn out to be nucellar, and those seedling would be just like it's parents.
Leaf shape can be an indicator if you have something different, but a possible problem with that is some believe the fruit quality usually tends to be correlated with leaf shape in the offspring, trifoliate leaf hybrids tasting worse. It could be that the monofoliate offspring seedlings, if you are lucky enough to get one that's a hybrid (though you would not immediately know), will be more likely to have better taste.

Till

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2020, 01:13:49 PM »
That is true. There can be hybrids among the monofoliate ones. But it seems to me that this case is very rare with Calamondin, at least if you let it pollinate itself. All seedlings of Calamondin that I had so far looked exactly the same, no variation in leaf form, except for the trifoliate seedlings. I could imagine that Calamondin produces some hybrid seedlings when cross pollinated by other citrus. Given the flower form of Calamondin natural cross pollination is, however, unlikely.

But when you ask yourself what seedling you should keep than you will look for those you want to have. And these are in our case the trifoliate ones, no matter how their fruit quality will be. Since trifoliate leaves are always dominantly inherited you can be sure that all Poncirus hybrids are trifoliate and that only the trifoliate ones are Poncirus hybrids (or Citrange hybrids etc.). Calamondin x Poncirus hybrids are, besides their hardiness, interesting because you can use them as a test to what degree Kumquat genes can suppress the bad taste of Poncirus, I mean the internal oils and the bitter taste. The existing Citrangequats give me some hope that it is possible but I know nothing for sure at the moment. So producing Calamondin x Poncirus hybrids is just an experiment for me. In case that the results are negative (= bad fruit taste) I will still gain the possiblity for further crosses. When the peel of C. X P. hybrids is sweet (seemingly a dominat trait of Kumquat) I could cross them with other Poncirus hybrids and have the hope that I do finally get a Poncirus hybrid with sweet edible peel.

Till

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Re: Calamondin x Poncirus
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2020, 03:39:35 AM »
I just want to give you a small update of my plant. Here a new Photo. Very good growth in my glashouse. My Calamondin x Poncirus grew slowly but constantly, so almost without the typical growth-flushes. And a curiosity is also that it branches on immature soft wood. Despite its seemingly slow growth it grew several times larger than it was at the begining of the year, just because it was constantly growing.
Here a photo:



The leaves have a moderate Poncirus taste combined with strong mandarine taste. Bitterness is not very strong.

 

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