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Author Topic: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California  (Read 4945 times)

JF

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2019, 12:24:44 PM »
I havenít tried a perfectly ripened one yet but a bunch of people got together at Leoís place and rated it very highly.

From the underripe fruit I ate, there is great potential.

Leo 2 is great if your looking for a sugar bomb but it lacks acid balance. If you eat it on the firm side, it can be excellent.

Leoís Keitt seedling is also great and tastes like a big Sweet Tart.

Simon

Hi simon i had a conversation with JF regarding Leo's varieties, And according to JF the best mango in Leoís yard and close to ST is a variety called T-1.  Could u verify?

Thatís absolutely right Gonz. t-1 is planted in the East side ,90% shaded, of Leoís yard so it doesnít produce well but in term of quality itís right up there w ST. There are dozens and f mangos of high quality from Southern California there are just not propagated. Here are a few I have to look in my archives  one day and post.















simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2019, 08:04:28 PM »
Does lemon meringue produce well here? What are the heaviest producing zill varieties?

In CA...Generally no without spraying with fungicides.  Lemon meringue (aka PPK...which is not a Zillís creation) and itís offspring Lemon Zest are powdery mildew magnets.  We are still trialing the offspring orange sherbert, but I would imagine it would have the same PM problem.

The heaviest producing newer Zillís varieties has been Sweet Tart.  Some have had good luck with Coconut Cream, but not me.  Overall, I havenít heard of any newer Zillís varieites being heavy producers.  Most have been classified as low to moderate at best.

So what varieties outside of zills are productive here?

CAC performs well here as does VP. I prefer CAC over VP any day.

Frank knows Leoís varieties really well. Iím sure Iíve reviewed it before but I just canít remember. Some of his varieties have an off season after a good year. Iíll try to review it later this year when itís ready.

Thanks to everyone that has shared their information so far. Iíd like for everyone growing Mangos in SoCal to share their experiences with the varieties theyíre growing because we need a lot more data before we can make recommendations to the general public.

Simon

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2019, 12:33:23 AM »
I planted:

Ataulfo (15 gallon) 18 months ago. Tree tripled in size, set fruit last season, and is in full bloom this season. Produced about 20 medium sized mangos last year. Fruits first tasted fibrous and ok, but improved in texture and flavored through the season into fall.

Alphonso on Turp (15 gallon) 18 months ago. Grew pretty well, doubling in size but droopy. It set fruit, but fruit dropped after reaching size of a marble.

Manilla seedling from home depot (3 gallon) 12 months. Has barely grown at all. Flushes are very stunted.

Eirlis

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 12:42:32 AM »
I have 5 mango trees so far in south Orange County:
LZ on turpentine rootstock - 4.5 years in ground, only ~4 feet tall with very slow growth, lots of panicles but poor fruit set so far. Lots of PM despite 2x fungicide applications. It only set 2 fruit last year of poor quality.
Coconut Cream on turpentine rootstock - 4.5 years in ground, 6-7 feet tall and very vigorous, tons of panicles but poor fruit set so far. Lots of PM despite 2x fungicide applications. It set zero fruit last year. :-(
Malika on turpentine rootstock - 4.5 years in ground, ~4 feet tall with very slow growth. However this tree has been heavily shaded until very recently (another tree was blocking its light). It has a number of panicles with flowers that are just beginning to open. No PM issues. No fruit last year.
Multi-graft tree I purchased from Frank ~2 years ago. It has Sweet Tart, Juicy Peach, Zinc, and Puneet. The tree overall has grown poorly with the ST and JP grafts are doing the best. Both are flowering now with no signs of PM. The other two grafts have done nothing.
I also have a LaVerne manila I planted 2 years ago which is now 5 feet tall and growing beautifully. It currently has 1 LZ graft I added last summer. No flowers so far. I'm planning on grafting a number of other varieties on to it this year if I can find budwood!

gozp

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 01:51:20 AM »

Multi-graft tree I purchased from Frank ~2 years ago. It has Sweet Tart, Juicy Peach, Zinc, and Puneet. The tree overall has grown poorly with the ST and JP grafts are doing the best. Both are flowering now with no signs of PM. The other two grafts have done nothing.


So far with my experience with JF mango trees they seem to be flourishing on a harsher environment . Here a few trees i got frim him grafted on a manila rootstock.




16/1 variety


Recently planted guava


Lemon zest finally setting fruitles. No PM noticed as i dnt use any spray



Peach cobbler



It may be possible u are doing something wrong. What are u using to fertilize ur trees?

« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 02:04:55 AM by gozp »

boxturtle

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2019, 03:26:51 PM »
can you  also put in side note what taste category the mango falls in ex. sugar bomb, citrus, coconut, etc would help noobs like me :)

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2019, 06:26:24 PM »
Good thread Simon!

I would Add a few that are reliable. The only one I question from your list is Kesar. Iíve had lots of drops with that variety. Here is my list:
LZ
Harvest Moon mutant
Edward
Parson
Cac
Fairchild
Thomson
Ivory
Villa Clara
Ugly betty
Cypress
Magcom
Dale
Sunrise
Juicy Peach
There are many others but I canít think right now.

I believe the LZ was added by mistake. In areas where fungal disease pressures are lower, LZ can produce very well like it does for Gary in Palm Springs but in many other locations, LZ appears to fruit poorly unless sprayed with fungicides.

This year, I tried to spray my LZ trees blooms with the hose about once a week, no fungicides, and so far my fruit set looks good although I expect much of the fruit to eventually drop. Powdery Mildew actually doesnít like moist conditions and overhead spraying is supposed to wash away the spores although my training in microbiology makes me feel that overhead spraying may also spread spores lower down the canopy.

Thanks to Chris and Har from Truly Tropical for their wonderful video on ďSpraying when mango trees have young fruitĒ.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyE_SOCYqo&t=730s
I will take Harís advice and try spraying with Silica and Kelp in the hopes that my tree will retain more fruit.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2019, 06:59:52 PM »
can you  also put in side note what taste category the mango falls in ex. sugar bomb, citrus, coconut, etc would help noobs like me :)

Gary has some Coconut flavor and the VPs grown in SoCal also have a slight coconut flavor.

Sweet Tart is a flavor bomb and Venus is similar but less potent in terms of sweetness and acidity.
Peach Cobbler is also a flavor bomb.

Maha, Glenn, Edward, NDM, CAC are all unique but not flavor bombs.

NDM, Sweet Tart, Leo 2 can also be considered sugar bombs as they are ultra sweet.

Simon


rliou

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2019, 07:14:44 PM »
In my yard is cerritos, the following produces well

Coconut cream (droopy on turpentine but produces reliably after 3-4 years in ground)
Pickering
Ice cream (bought as 15gal tree with florida rootstock)
Galaxy (scion from dongeogio)
Valencia Pride (taste is subjective for some but it's a nice large colorful mangos for your relatives who don't know mangos)
Peach cobbler (on turpentine rootstock)

These following are the ones that are least productive in my yard
-alphonso (blooms like crazy and has lots of vegetative growth but very little fruits)
-lemon zest (powdery mildew problem)
-Venus (powdery mildew problem but it may be because of the location in my yard which is too shady and dark)

Robert

gozp

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2019, 08:22:39 PM »
Good thread Simon!

I would Add a few that are reliable. The only one I question from your list is Kesar. Iíve had lots of drops with that variety. Here is my list:
LZ
Harvest Moon mutant
Edward
Parson
Cac
Fairchild
Thomson
Ivory
Villa Clara
Ugly betty
Cypress
Magcom
Dale
Sunrise
Juicy Peach
There are many others but I canít think right now.

I believe the LZ was added by mistake. In areas where fungal disease pressures are lower, LZ can produce very well like it does for Gary in Palm Springs but in many other locations, LZ appears to fruit poorly unless sprayed with fungicides.

This year, I tried to spray my LZ trees blooms with the hose about once a week, no fungicides, and so far my fruit set looks good although I expect much of the fruit to eventually drop. Powdery Mildew actually doesnít like moist conditions and overhead spraying is supposed to wash away the spores although my training in microbiology makes me feel that overhead spraying may also spread spores lower down the canopy.

Thanks to Chris and Har from Truly Tropical for their wonderful video on ďSpraying when mango trees have young fruitĒ.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyE_SOCYqo&t=730s
I will take Harís advice and try spraying with Silica and Kelp in the hopes that my tree will retain more fruit.

Simon
First 3 photos are LZ... so far no problems with PM. I dont spray copper or sulfur except foliar seaweed every other night.










Sweet tart..


Im stoked to see new growth compare to old growth of OS on pot..im letting this tiny os hold fruit once it sets.


« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 08:27:03 PM by gozp »

behlgarden

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2019, 08:49:53 PM »
on stunted mango trees that grow only 4 feet in 4 years, dont bother, those are root bound or their roots are not establishing, I have yanked suck trees only to find the trees hanging on tiny roots, barely staying alive. Mangoes takeoff in 2nd year and if they dont by 3rd, there is permanent problem, you are better off yanking them, I dont recommend 15 gal mango trees to be put into ground, majority of such potted plants are root bound and dont respond well unless you get lucky OR really know how to push them hard.

gozp

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2019, 08:56:17 PM »
on stunted mango trees that grow only 4 feet in 4 years, dont bother, those are root bound or their roots are not establishing, I have yanked suck trees only to find the trees hanging on tiny roots, barely staying alive. Mangoes takeoff in 2nd year and if they dont by 3rd, there is permanent problem, you are better off yanking them, I dont recommend 15 gal mango trees to be put into ground, majority of such potted plants are root bound and dont respond well unless you get lucky OR really know how to push them hard.

I concur.

My 3 gallon turpentines do fairly better than my 15 gallons turpentine.

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2019, 12:21:50 AM »
on stunted mango trees that grow only 4 feet in 4 years, dont bother, those are root bound or their roots are not establishing, I have yanked suck trees only to find the trees hanging on tiny roots, barely staying alive. Mangoes takeoff in 2nd year and if they dont by 3rd, there is permanent problem, you are better off yanking them, I dont recommend 15 gal mango trees to be put into ground, majority of such potted plants are root bound and dont respond well unless you get lucky OR really know how to push them hard.

Behl, I completely agree with you. Some trees just take off and show explosive growth, some can take a couple years to really get going and there are those that are just stunted.

Here are some pictures of my recently set LZ fruit. The early panicles were completely covered with Powdery Mildew and there was no fruit set. When the second blooms started showing up, I started spraying the blooms with water from my garden hose and there appeared to be slightly less PM and Iím starting to see fruit set.



Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2019, 07:12:36 PM »
I had a bunch of LZ fruit get to 1-1.5 inches long and they all dropped suddenly.

My Kesar graft that is in mostly shade has set some fruit although some are still dropping.

Kesar fruit fruit



Simon

FMfruitforest

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2019, 05:36:04 AM »
I had a bunch of LZ fruit get to 1-1.5 inches long and they all dropped suddenly.

My Kesar graft that is in mostly shade has set some fruit although some are still dropping.

Kesar fruit fruit



Simon

Reason for your LZ to drop mangoes?

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2019, 01:55:17 PM »
Lemon Zest is known to be a poor holder of fruit and it is highly susceptible to fungal diseases. If you get past the Powdery Mildew in the bloom stage, you still have to deal with fruit drop that is variety specific and LZ is one of those varieties that tends to drop a lot of fruit in SoCal.

There is anecdotal evidence that LZ will hold more fruit as is matures and gets fully established.

I may start spraying my LZ tree with copper, Sulfur and sodium bicarbonate to minimize fungal infections and see if I get more fruit to hold.

My LZ tree was significantly infected with dieback this Winter and it lost approximately 1/4 itís canopy because I had to cut back many infected branches. Because it was in such poor shape, I had to give it fertilizer and minor and micro nutrients to help stimulate new growth.

The fertilizers did the job and itís completely filled in its canopy again but I did notice that shortly after I gave it the fertilizers, when new growth was starting to emerge, it coincided with the fruit drop.

Excessive fertilizers or even normal fertilization after fruit set may be detrimental to LZ trees holding fruit.

This is just pure speculation but if more members report back, we may eventually find out why LZ drops so much fruit.

We know that in desert climates like in Palm Springs, LZ sets and holds a lot of fruit. It is difficult for PM to survive at those temps so reduction of fungal pathogens is something that is obvious and one of the main things we should be looking at.

Simon

johnb51

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2019, 03:15:24 PM »
It almost seems not worth all the effort, Simon.  Are PPK or OS any easier to grow there??
John

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2019, 05:09:12 PM »
I have PPK and OS but it is too early to tell. LZ is absolutely amazing when you can get it to hold fruit. We will know more in the coming years. Iíve harvested small numbers of fruit from my LZ trees without spraying but in bad years, you can get zero fruit.

I still have hopes that my LZ trees will hold more fruit as it becomes fully established with a large canopy to push past disease pressures.

Simon

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2019, 08:39:38 PM »
It's interesting your LZ suffered from die back. I had no such issues with my two trees grafted with Lemon Zest. My LZ trees are starting there 2nd flush of the year and are the fastest-growing thus far for 2019. My Nam Doc Mai wants to keep flowering and I wish it would just get growing.

I do regularly spray with Sulfer and on occasion cooper just like you. I did have some powdery mildew with LZ but this also effected some of my manila rootstock trees as well.

By the way, I regularly apply Rock Sust (Azomite) to all of my fruit trees and that solves all micronutrient issues.  Our soil especially needs calcium replenishment from time to time and Azomite has 2% calcium.

Time will tell how well LZ does in our area in the long run.

Johnny

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2019, 12:49:12 AM »
Yeah both my LZ and PPK got hit really bad with dieback. I believe that when I get frost at my house, it can cause micro injuries that allow fungus and disease to enter the tree. I also have a lot of sharpshooters that suck the sap from my mango trees and Iíve seen the area where they bite eventually turn black and start dying back.

I donít currently have my mango trees on a fungicide rotation but I plan on starting really soon. My yard is super wet in the mornings because of all the fog we get.

Leo Manuel is doing it right by planting mango varieties, many of his own, that are highly productive even in high disease areas. He does this without spraying unless absolutely necessary.

Many, if not most of his trees are seedlings he planted out and grew to fruition. By planting seedlings, he did not have to worry about his trees wasting energy on flowering and his seedlings grew strong. If the seedlings produced good fruit, he would keep it and if it didnít, he would graft over it. Learning from the pioneers is a blessing.

Simon

johnb51

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2019, 11:07:43 AM »
Simon, is your fundamental problem lack of heat, rain, and air circulation?  Our humidity is outrageous, BUT it's hot and I get plenty of ocean breeze.  Never had any disease or fruit set issues.  (A friend from L.A. said to me the other day, "The things I like most about Florida are mangoes and rain.")
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 11:13:53 AM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2019, 01:02:06 PM »
I still have hope growing mangoes successfully in Southern California. I canít confirm because I planted most of my mangoes last September but trees like the one below can be seen in many backyards of garden grove area in this time of year. Full of mangoes with new growth, picture taken yesterday.



simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2019, 04:14:49 PM »
Simon, is your fundamental problem lack of heat, rain, and air circulation?  Our humidity is outrageous, BUT it's hot and I get plenty of ocean breeze.  Never had any disease or fruit set issues.  (A friend from L.A. said to me the other day, "The things I like most about Florida are mangoes and rain.")

John, thatís pretty much what it is but the frost is really bad also. I get frost at my place almost every year. We donít really get heat until this time of year but when we do get the heat, you can see everything flushing and pushing past all the fungal diseases.

During most of the year when it is cooler, the plants are just languishing and disease sets in and the trees are unable to fight off any infections. many people in my neighborhood grow fruit and veggies so there is a lot of sources for fungal spores.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2019, 04:24:42 PM »
I still have hope growing mangoes successfully in Southern California. I canít confirm because I planted most of my mangoes last September but trees like the one below can be seen in many backyards of garden grove area in this time of year. Full of mangoes with new growth, picture taken yesterday.



Hawkfish007,

Trees like that is very possible but most of the larger trees you see like that are seedling trees. Without the influence of florigenic hormones from grafted, mature scions, seedling trees grow with vigor.

Now imagine you take this bit of knowledge and grow seedlings from Polyembryonic mango varieties.  You will get the benefit of delayed sexual maturity so the seedling will grow vigorously for several years and you get the benefit that by growing out a polyembryonic mango variety, there is no need to graft the tree to get good quality fruit. This is assuming you selected the clone or if you have been following my threads, you will grow out at least two seedlings from each Polyembryonic seed in the hopes that at least one seedling is a clone. This is what Brad and I are doing over at the orchard.

Simon

behlgarden

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Re: Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2019, 01:46:55 PM »
I lost all LZ, Honey Kiss, and Peach Cobbler this year, PM kicked it hard. we had bad late spring. Although I got late small fruitlets on Peach Cobbler that were set recently, they are pea size now.

all these three seem to be intolerant of PM. I sprayed but in vein, didn't help.

 

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