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Author Topic: Grafting Question: Advice Needed  (Read 683 times)

Kelley_GA8a

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Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« on: April 05, 2019, 10:29:46 PM »
Question: any recommendations on getting a graft to wake up? My Carrubaro lemon is still green and the graft has fused (grafted at the end of December/beginning of January) but showing no signs of swelling. My two other amalfi grafts should be leafing out any day now.

Note: the Carrubaro is inside a plastic container that is sitting on a heat mat.

Thanks for your time! :)

Kelley






Sylvain

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 09:01:00 AM »
Bad choice of budwood.
These budwoods are forks, that means the main buds have sproot and have later been cut. (not sure of my english  ;) )
Your only hope is now the lateral buds, one on each side of the (cutted) main buds.
It can take a very long time for them to sprout...

Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2019, 09:55:02 AM »
Sylvain is correct. The first 2-4 nodes on a branch are usually blind buds & will not work. When taking budwood you want to discard the lower portion of the branch. I had a bunch of photos on the old citrus forum, but I guess they are all lost.

Vlad

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 10:47:11 AM »
I do not understand Sylvain's and Laaz's replies as to why the grafts will not work. By "first 2-4 nodes on a branch" do you mean the nodes nearest the tip of the branch? Why won't it work?

Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 11:21:42 AM »
You don't use the first 3-4 buds from the starting point of the branch, they normally will not sprout.


citrange

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2019, 03:07:49 PM »
SYLVAIN is explaining that the best choice for grafting is a leaf node that has not yet sprouted.
Each such leaf node contains an embryonic sprout that will start to grow after grafting.
If you choose a node that has already sprouted (what Sylvain calls 'a fork') growth will often be very slow because new shoots do not easily develop at this point - although they probably will eventually.
In the finger lime twig photo below I have marked a fork - which is the bad choice - and a leaf node, which is a better choice for grafting.
In Laaz's diagram you could extend the red box to the bottom left, so that the fork in the twigs is also included as a blind bud.
Hope this is now clearer!

(Click photo to enlarge.)

luak

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2019, 03:10:31 PM »
Laaz, i still have a Sony-cd-r of your grafting tutorial from the old citrus forum. My new computer will not play it. Those were the days that i start learning about " citrus".
Good observation on Kelley's graft, but on one picture i saw a viable healthy bud, waiting to push.

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2019, 04:38:04 PM »
Thank you all for your help and explanations! Boy, that is disappointing, as I do not know if I can obtain more of this budwood. I will see what happens with this one and try to get more for the future.

Thanks again, guys!!

Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2019, 04:47:41 PM »
Carrubaro is a Femminello lemon which are my favorites. If you luck out & it sprouts, I would be interested in a budstick at some point.

Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2019, 04:48:39 PM »
luak the photos should be in standard .jpg format.

mrtexas

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2019, 05:24:15 PM »
You can usually tell if the lowest buds are blind or not by inspecting
to make sure there is a bud there.

Vlad

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2019, 10:56:33 PM »
I thank you all for your lucid explanations.
Kelley, I have my fingers crossed that your graft succeeds after all. Good luck!

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2019, 09:33:21 AM »
Thank you for the kind words, Vlad! Laaz, if you want a Femminello variety now, the CCPP has Femminello Siracusano 2KR available. I received budwood back in October and my graft is just now waking up. Iím very excited for this variety:)


Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2019, 09:48:05 AM »
Thanks, but I already have that one.

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2019, 10:42:57 AM »
Laaz, I sent you a PM.

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 10:56:13 PM »
Have you tried a mild drench with some fertilizer? That may be enough to wake it up.

Simon

jbclem

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2019, 08:40:49 PM »
I'm curious to know if the bud sticks that we order from UCR are entire branches, including blind buds, or if they make their cuts to avoid these buds.

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2019, 08:49:50 PM »
The budsticks that I received were all good buds, no blind:


Simon, I have sprayed them with Superthrive, but not fertilizer - thatís a good idea! I did notice today that the Carrubaro is waking up:




Millet

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2019, 09:57:03 PM »
Superthrive is a complete  waste of money, a worthless product.  I remember a test Dr. Manners conducted at Florida Southern University, and reported the results - Could see no benefit over plants that were not given suuperthrive.

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 10:06:31 PM »
Millet, I have not seen any benefits from using it either. I picked up a spray bottle for $5 and figured Iíd give it a try. I will not be buying any more.

jbclem

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 04:46:52 AM »
Kelley, how can you tell that the buds aren't blind.  Do they look different from blind buds?

MrTexas said this: "You can usually tell if the lowest buds are blind or not by inspecting to make sure there is a bud there."  But this statement didn't make sense to me.  Unless "blind bud" literally means a junction (leaf junction?)  on a piece of wood without a bud in the junction. 

Kelley_GA8a

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2019, 05:29:11 AM »
Let me say that Iím 99.9% sure there were no blind buds - there were none that had previously grown branches; only thorns and leaves. The budsticks were very nice :).

jbclem

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 07:19:59 AM »
Aren't you talking about buds in forks?  What I've read here is that the first 2-4 nodes on the branch (that is cut off to become scionwood) are the blind ones.  You count from the attachment point of this branch/cutting.  So if the CCPP is giving you cuttings that include the end that was attached to the trunk, or to a branch, then you are getting 2-4 blind buds.  If they are deliberately counting 4 buds away from the trunk or branch and then making the cut, they are giving you a cutting without blind buds.  That's how I'm understanding it.

I've been exchanging emails with Rock Christiano at the CCPP.  I'll ask him about this.

 

Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 08:44:03 AM »
I've had much butter success with cleft grafting by using a stick with 3-4 instead of a single bud. I also never remove the grafting tape until the buds start forcing their way through.




Laaz

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Re: Grafting Question: Advice Needed
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2019, 08:52:23 AM »
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