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Author Topic: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium  (Read 1776 times)

SeaWalnut

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Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« on: April 21, 2019, 11:13:21 PM »
I see this tree quite offten listed as edible but what parts of it its edible i dont know.I suspect the edible part its the nectar from the flowers in a similar way that sugar bushes are used.Maybe somebody that knows more about this will shed light on the edibility issue.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 06:36:28 PM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2019, 05:12:03 AM »
Seeds arrived from Patagonia.Gevuina Avellana ,the red nuts that look like Macadamia and Embothrium Coccineum ,the smaller seeds.Both are proteaceae.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2019, 05:29:50 AM »
Note: i dont sell them.

pvaldes

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 04:11:14 PM »
After a spanish book, seeds are the edible part when cooked.

In any case I don't have direct experience with it, and those seeds could be from other species, so be careful.

Other uses: Has some healing effect, Spoons are made from its wood. Leaves are used as cattle fodder and eaten by deer, and flowers attract birds

A narrow tree that stands shadowed spots, fits in small spaces with a splendid massive floration in spring and a second floration in fall sometimes (less profuse). Just for the flower this jewel from the Antarctic flora would deserve a space.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 04:39:23 PM by pvaldes »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 10:23:14 PM »
After a spanish book, seeds are the edible part when cooked.

In any case I don't have direct experience with it, and those seeds could be from other species, so be careful.

Other uses: Has some healing effect, Spoons are made from its wood. Leaves are used as cattle fodder and eaten by deer, and flowers attract birds

A narrow tree that stands shadowed spots, fits in small spaces with a splendid massive floration in spring and a second floration in fall sometimes (less profuse). Just for the flower this jewel from the Antarctic flora would deserve a space.
Just for the flowers il give them space on my land. I also have beehives and i think these trees produce a lot of nectar but i am not sure iet.I have a feeling its like Rewarewa from New Zealand wich is also a protaceae with similar flowers .Indigenous people from NZ shake the rewarewa flowers into a bucket and they drink the nectar they had collected.For bees to reach the nectar of Embothrium might be problematic because of the shape of the flower and bees might dissassemble the flowers just like they do to magnolia flowers to take the pollen( magnolias dont produce nectar,just pollen).Thx for explaining me from spanish language. Here is a link about Rewarewa flowers and their nectar collection.https://youtu.be/SK9u0MZA4B8
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 10:26:11 PM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 09:00:52 PM »
After a month in the fridge i got good germination rate of Gevuina( the nut seeds), close to 100 percent.
Embothrium needs a little more time in the fridge but i still mannaged to get one seed without cold stratification at all( soaked in gibberellic acid ,500 ppm/24 hours).


SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 04:28:10 AM »
I got an idea on how to lower phosphorus for these protea plants.I will buy cheapest iron nails,wash them of oil and then i will mix them into the soil on the spot where il plant these trees.
The nails will rust and the rust will bind the phosphates really well .Ive used special rust pellets ( GFO) in the past to remove phosphates from water but GFO is expensive and its just rust after all.One kilo of nails costs just 1 euro.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2019, 05:28:58 AM »
Great read about South American proteaceae.They tolerate a lot more phosphorus than proteaceae from Australia and South Africa.
South african ptotea grow well between 1-40 ppm P ,while the south americans do well between 63-951 ppm P.
The more tolerant proteaceae from South America are Embothrium and Lomatia Hirsuta,but especially Embothrium since it looses a lot of P when its shading its leaves so the colder the climate the more phosphorus resistance it has.
 Also found 2 practices to lower the phosphorus,one is to measure the P at 50 cm depth and at the surface.At depth it should be much lower and by tilling 50 cm deep the phosphorus gets ,,diluted,, in the soil.
The otther practice its to add aluminium sulphate,0,15 gr of AlSiO4 per each ppm of P that needs to be reduced.Aluminium binds the phosphate and its non toxic.Its verry similar to my method of using rust,iron oxide,basically does the same thing and its probably cheaper.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6030812/

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 08:15:25 AM »
My Gevuina plants.After somme intense study i figgired out they tolerate normal soil( not highly rich) and somme dont look verry good because i starved them in verry poore soil .But now i changed the verry poore soils of somme of the pots with good clay soil from my garden.


« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 08:20:12 AM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 08:13:15 PM »
I lost all the Embothrium due to damping off disease because i wasnt at home to treat them with chamomille tea.
The gevuinas are being eaten by slugs really bad and i made these copper wire snail deterrents .I still found a slug eating on one gevuina seedling the next day so i added coffee grounds around the seedlings and over the copper wire.These should atop the snails and hopefully the plants recover.



« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:14:49 PM by SeaWalnut »

00christian00

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 01:20:47 AM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?


SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 02:57:57 AM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?
I got these from a friend after spending a year searching them.Before that ive ordered a few packs of seeds from USA ( from ebay) and none of those germinated ,so beware if your gonna spend a lot of monney on them.Make sure they are fresh.

00christian00

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 05:30:53 AM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?
I got these from a friend after spending a year searching them.Before that ive ordered a few packs of seeds from USA ( from ebay) and none of those germinated ,so beware if your gonna spend a lot of monney on them.Make sure they are fresh.
I had found somebody willing to ship some seeds but didn't hear from him since a long time.
How big is the nut? Have you tasted any?

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 09:25:15 AM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?
I got these from a friend after spending a year searching them.Before that ive ordered a few packs of seeds from USA ( from ebay) and none of those germinated ,so beware if your gonna spend a lot of monney on them.Make sure they are fresh.
I had found somebody willing to ship some seeds but didn't hear from him since a long time.
How big is the nut? Have you tasted any?
They are one third in volume of the macadamia nuts and taste is a lot better than the taste of macadamia .They are sweeter and have a coconut like flavour similar to apricot seeds but a lot sweeter.The downsides of these nuts is that the shell its too soft to be cracked and also if you roast them ,then the sugars turn the nuts brown while the macadamias stay white.

00christian00

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 12:20:25 PM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?
I got these from a friend after spending a year searching them.Before that ive ordered a few packs of seeds from USA ( from ebay) and none of those germinated ,so beware if your gonna spend a lot of monney on them.Make sure they are fresh.
I had found somebody willing to ship some seeds but didn't hear from him since a long time.
How big is the nut? Have you tasted any?
They are one third in volume of the macadamia nuts and taste is a lot better than the taste of macadamia .They are sweeter and have a coconut like flavour similar to apricot seeds but a lot sweeter.The downsides of these nuts is that the shell its too soft to be cracked and also if you roast them ,then the sugars turn the nuts brown while the macadamias stay white.
Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I saw some picture that seemed really small, but couldn't find any real data.
So if the shell is soft can they be opened by hand or teeth? Otherwise seem a lot of effort for such a small nut.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 05:44:25 PM »
Hi,
Can I know where you bought Gevuina Avellana seeds?
I got these from a friend after spending a year searching them.Before that ive ordered a few packs of seeds from USA ( from ebay) and none of those germinated ,so beware if your gonna spend a lot of monney on them.Make sure they are fresh.
I had found somebody willing to ship some seeds but didn't hear from him since a long time.
How big is the nut? Have you tasted any?
They are one third in volume of the macadamia nuts and taste is a lot better than the taste of macadamia .They are sweeter and have a coconut like flavour similar to apricot seeds but a lot sweeter.The downsides of these nuts is that the shell its too soft to be cracked and also if you roast them ,then the sugars turn the nuts brown while the macadamias stay white.
Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I saw some picture that seemed really small, but couldn't find any real data.
So if the shell is soft can they be opened by hand or teeth? Otherwise seem a lot of effort for such a small nut.
They are not to small and the shell is hard but hard to crack because it has the red husk wich make it somewhat too much elastic.
Its a verry rare tree and its verry beautifull ,cold hardy and provides year round high quality nuts.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Chile flame tree,Embothrium Coccineum,proteaceae.
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2020, 07:05:31 PM »
These are my Gevuina trees now.
A few advices for growing them that i learned the hard way :
- never add compost ,manure or any type of fertiliser to the soil mix or to the water,etc.Use only foliar spray fertiliser the mild types used for Azalea( Rhodendrons).
- they need acid soil if the soil has too much phosphate ,because low ph makes phosphorus non available.
- cofee grounds can be used to prevent slugs from eating them in their first year of life( cofee deters slugs and snails - wich makes me think caffeine evolved for plants tk give them protection against snails- snail is slow and cofee makes them fast  ;D )
- use good potting soil for proteaceae ( expert level plants) or read my forum about the ,,Iron pan,, to learn how to lower the phosphates by using red ferous sand into the soil mix.
- i dont reccomend this tree for beginners.There is a reason on why its not known well even in Chile and thats because its almost an expert level tree to grow.The seeds will germinate verry easy if they are fresh but to keep them long term and over a year its a challenge altough the tree worts it because its beautifull all the time and the nuts are tastyer than macadamia.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 07:07:56 PM by SeaWalnut »

JSea

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 05:32:16 PM »
I've seen a number of Gevuina trees in NZ. Most people with a number of trees had a high death rate, 80% from the two I know personally. I can understand one site - as it was clay soil (but a slope). But the other was reasonably good volcanic/alluvial soil and still 8/10 trees died. I've also seen two trees growing on very sandy deep soil, and they seemed very happy - although much shrubbier with many suckers (I think I read something about sandy soil encouraging suckering behaviour for many plant species). The consensus from growers is always the same - not worth growing Gevuina if you can grow Macadamia. I have yet to meet anyone who can't grow Macadamia (they're a lot tougher than many people think), although I have started to gather some Gevuina plants and seeds to pass down to more Southern locations where Macadamia may not grow.
The other consensus is that they have a strong requirement for the correct mycorrhizal fungi - without these there is an 'empty slot' that is easily be utilized by pathogens.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2020, 06:43:54 PM »
I've seen a number of Gevuina trees in NZ. Most people with a number of trees had a high death rate, 80% from the two I know personally. I can understand one site - as it was clay soil (but a slope). But the other was reasonably good volcanic/alluvial soil and still 8/10 trees died. I've also seen two trees growing on very sandy deep soil, and they seemed very happy - although much shrubbier with many suckers (I think I read something about sandy soil encouraging suckering behaviour for many plant species). The consensus from growers is always the same - not worth growing Gevuina if you can grow Macadamia. I have yet to meet anyone who can't grow Macadamia (they're a lot tougher than many people think), although I have started to gather some Gevuina plants and seeds to pass down to more Southern locations where Macadamia may not grow.
The other consensus is that they have a strong requirement for the correct mycorrhizal fungi - without these there is an 'empty slot' that is easily be utilized by pathogens.
The most important thing for these proteaceae is low phosphorus or if you have normal phosphorus levels then you need a low ph to make the P non available.
They have specialised roots that can acces phosphorus thats locked and thats not available for otther plants.
Australia because it has the oldest ,most weathered land on Earth,the phosphorus there its locked by iron and aluminum( clay soil) and has such extremely poore phosphorus soil that made these plants evolve and they developed proteoid roots.

Gevuina its not a comercial crop of the importance of Macadamias but the nuts of Gevuina taste a lot sweeter and better than the macadamia nuts i ate.
Also gevuina has an elastic shell and its hard to take the nuts out.

Gevuina its rare in Chile,its native habitat where most people there never heard about it.
Macadamia is soo common that i wouldnt bother to grow since i live in a cold climate and if i keep a tree in my greenhouse then it must be a rare tree.
I also think that Gevuina its more beautifull as an ornamental than macadamia and i know that macadamia was just an ornamental tree not too long ago when the nuts were not toght to be edible.

JSea

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2020, 07:49:10 PM »
Quote
They have specialised roots that can acces phosphorus thats locked and thats not available for otther plants.
This is not their roots that are specialized, it's mycorrhizal fungi that can access this phosphorus on behalf of the tree.

Quote
Gevuina its rare in Chile,its native habitat where most people there never heard about it.
Macadamia is soo common that i wouldnt bother to grow since i live in a cold climate and if i keep a tree in my greenhouse then it must be a rare tree.
I also think that Gevuina its more beautifull as an ornamental than macadamia and i know that macadamia was just an ornamental tree not too long ago when the nuts were not toght to be edible.

Hmmm okay, I think I prefer a bucket of nice easy to eat food than a pretty tree. ;) But I will keep posted about progress with Gevuina selections here as I'll be helping some friends with this. I think we've already selected stronger plants here if 80% died already.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2020, 08:01:30 PM »
Quote
They have specialised roots that can acces phosphorus thats locked and thats not available for otther plants.
This is not their roots that are specialized, it's mycorrhizal fungi that can access this phosphorus on behalf of the tree.

Quote
Gevuina its rare in Chile,its native habitat where most people there never heard about it.
Macadamia is soo common that i wouldnt bother to grow since i live in a cold climate and if i keep a tree in my greenhouse then it must be a rare tree.
I also think that Gevuina its more beautifull as an ornamental than macadamia and i know that macadamia was just an ornamental tree not too long ago when the nuts were not toght to be edible.

Hmmm okay, I think I prefer a bucket of nice easy to eat food than a pretty tree. ;) But I will keep posted about progress with Gevuina selections here as I'll be helping some friends with this. I think we've already selected stronger plants here if 80% died already.
It is not Mycorrhiza that make these plants to acces phosphorus .
All proteaceae including macadamia have these type if cluster roots called proteoid roots wich exude carboxillic componds to make phosphorus available in verry poore in P soils where the P is bound strongly to iron and aluminum.
If you know sugar bushes(Knightia Excelsa) from New Zealand,those are also proteaceae and they also have these cluster roots to acces phosphorus.Take one out and look at the roots .

If you grow any proteaceae plants you should know about the cluster roots and phosphorus or else you will kill your plants with fertiliser wich contains phosphorus and its toxic for them.
They want the phosphorus to be inorganic ,bound to iron or aluminum.
Give them phosphates from fertiliser and its no wonder you get 80% death rate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_root

« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 08:20:10 PM by SeaWalnut »

JSea

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 12:58:34 AM »
Quote
They want the phosphorus to be inorganic ,bound to iron or aluminum.
Give them phosphates from fertiliser and its no wonder you get 80% death rate.

Macadamias are very easy to keep alive here, they are more difficult to kill! I don't think Macadamias are intolerant to fertilizer, they are commonly fertilized here by home gardeners and don't suffer any issues. Gevuina on the other hand - is susceptible to root rot problems very easily. This is separate to poor uptake of Phosphorus.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Gevuina nuts and Embothrium
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 04:31:44 AM »
Quote
They want the phosphorus to be inorganic ,bound to iron or aluminum.
Give them phosphates from fertiliser and its no wonder you get 80% death rate.

Macadamias are very easy to keep alive here, they are more difficult to kill! I don't think Macadamias are intolerant to fertilizer, they are commonly fertilized here by home gardeners and don't suffer any issues. Gevuina on the other hand - is susceptible to root rot problems very easily. This is separate to poor uptake of Phosphorus.
I dont grow macadamia but this nursery in Australua says macadamia trees are easily killed with fertiliser.
In fact Gevuina its like 10 times more tolerant of phosphorus than macadamia because it grows in more fertile soils but its still sensitive and will die if you add manure to a seedling.
 
In manny cades you can kill these trees by simply planting them in soil thats too fertile even without adding any type of fertiliser.

If.you grow them in pure sand ,then they will accept a little fertiliser .Sand is usually acid and in acid soils phosphorus becomes non available faster.
Phosphorus binds to rust and if you keep an iron nail in an acid soil it will rust and  the rust will atract the phosphorus( this is just an example of why phosphorus becomes non available in acid soils).
Red acid soil and badlands is what these trees are made for.

 

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