Leo Manuel's yard tour 10/26/12

[Tim]

Allow me to simply apologize for the barrage of pictures

A big Thank You to Leo for generously hosting us in his amazingly compact backyard, thank you Simon (simon_grow) for putting this meeting together and making everything possible, it truly was an enjoyable day.  The casts included Leo Manuel himself, Simon, two other forum members we met for the first time known as Gary (mangofang) & Joe (JF), Eunice Messner chauffeured by Joe, Jim Neitzel & Frank (can't seem to recall but I think Jim mentioned Abbott)... and myself.

Simon will provide more details on the Q&A by members here at a later time.

Leo's marked Todo Santos wedge graft  -  multi-grafted tree


Todo Santos mangoes - we were told it's a Mexican cultivar




Moringa - not having much success in front yard


Longan - forgot to ask which cultivar


Passiflora coccinea?


Big jaboticaba tree right in his front porch - doesn't get nearly as much sun (in between properties)


Kensington Pride seedling tree & fruits





Leo's mislabeled "Carrie" seedling tree, I suspect it to be VP seedling - Jim also confirms my VP suspicion


Thomson T-1 mango - according to Leo, Paul Thomson preferred this mango many times over his other commercialized cultivar, Thomson mango.


"Florida sourced" Maha Chanok, multi-grafted onto the same rootstock as the T-1.  That's his dilemma for not cutting the tree back to let Maha Chanok thrive



seedling mango tree


A massive seedling mango that Leo doesn't remember from which cultivar



another seedling selection that's multi-grafted onto the same tree as above


Multi-grafted seedling selections with Simon looking on


Nam Doc Mai bush





dwarf Keitt mango - this tree was allowed to fruit at a young age, doesn't seem to bounce back at all, it's now putting out even more humongous fruits ... poor tree




Jim, mangofang & Eunice admiring the multi-grafted Peggy mango tree ... Jim calls this Peggy tree "the always reliable"






grafted onto the same rootstock as Peggy, forgot which variety this is (U.P.)?  This exposed to the element fruit doesn't seem to fare well


Brewster Lychee - only remaining handful of fruits are on the neighbor's side of the yard


One of the many seedling trees, though this one has not been grafted on yet.  Bottom right hand corner in white grafting tape is a newly grafted Lemon Zest.


Kensington Pride mangoes, the actual KP mango -not KP seedling like his other trees






Leo in the midst of  his backyard jungle


seedling tree's new growth - the colors are absolutely amazing in person


McDill white sapote, fruits in the cluster of 4 in the second picture are bigger than a large navel orange ... unreal



seedling rose apple from one of his other known cultivar, new growth on SoCAL sky backdrop


big macadamia seedling tree, planted just outside of his property line



Pink Panther dragon fruit - He told us but I forgot the actual crosses


Yellow Dragon - even though it hasn't fully filled out, still pretty big fruits for a yellow dragon


Leo's signature hybrid DRAGON TOMATO


San Ignacio (red) - this fruit is massive, the thumb scale doesn't do it justice


huge cherimoya tree's new growth after "severe" pruning - humongous leaves


mangofang, JF & Leo ... you can't really tell but I managed to get in under the low canopy of this Peggy mango to snap this picture - annoying paparazzi skills


Jim discussing plant matters with Eunice


small view of Leo's backyard jungle, left of the cherimoya tree is his Annona hybrid (Atemoya x Cherimoya)


fruits from seedling tree "seedling 3" & fruit of another seedling selection



Eunice's box of mangoes - Edwards, Thomsons & Carnivals


Kent mango knocked off the tree by accident, rock hard & still very green (outside the box)


Leo's favorite fruits


Leo's sampler basket - clockwise from top right:  Peggy, Rose Giant, Rose Giant, seedling 11, Early Gold, Rose Giant (center)


Eunice & Frank in conversation with Jim(not in picture), JF staring at mangofang.  Behind Frank is a multi-grafted Surinam tree


mangofang showing JF & Simon how big a hoop his long arms make, Simon's not impressed


Jim conversing with Eunice & Frank, with JF replacing mangofang in hoop making


Leo finally resting his legs after multiple tours.  Simon, Frank & I arrived earlier...


Jim discussing poly mango seed with JF, mangofang & Simon



Pioneers of SoCAL tropicals - from left to right:  Leo, Eunice, Frank & Jim


Group picture, seated:  Leo, Eunice, Jim.  Back row:  Me, Frank, Gary (mangofang) & Joe (JF)


Group picture, seated:  Leo, Eunice, Jim.  Back row:  Simon, Me, Frank & Gary (mangofang).   Who's the better photographer?  Simon or JF?


Leo giving our group a tour of his back yard


Jim showing Eunice & myself a seedling loquat, 1 of 4 seeds Maurice Kong sent to Leo & Jim.


lone fruit from seedling selection grafted onto turpentine rootstock.  Leo uses turpentine as opposed to manila rootstocks, I forgot what his explanation to JF was.


top worked tree with Kensington Pride seedling.  Notice the graft right above the rope tie?  Branched out from the scion and fruited immediately.  Fuyu persimmon in background


Fuyu persimmon


Jim showing Eunice a multi-grafted apricot tree


Leo's dragon fruit collection, there are WAY MORE pots than my camera can pan out at that distance.  Can't take pictures from too far because they'd be covered by other trees



Gary questioning legitimacy of this PEGGY mango dropping on its own without my helping


Peggy mango with its unique and characteristic protuberance


Leo's generous gift

[Tim]

Of the mangoes sampled that day, many of us agreed Peggy was clearly the breadwinner.  Not as rich compared to others I've had, but outstanding flavor nonetheless.  Very sweet with a light sub-acid balance that sits just right, very juicy flavor - does that make any sense? 

Monoembryonic seed
Firm flesh
Fiberless
Sweet & nice aroma even before cut open

[nullzero]

Great pictures, wish I was there! Looks like an abundance of mangoes to harvest this year. They look like they are going to keep rolling in till the end of November. After looking at the pictures and reading about the descriptions, I want to grow some of these mango varieties lol.

[Moorpark Guy]

I understand how you grow most of your fruit and the conditions required, but how did you grow your lychee so large. Isn't it hard because if the dry Santa Ana winds for the lychee to grow that large?

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Tim,

You guys are truly roll'n in the deep in them tropical fruit in SoCal Truly breath taking pics and inspirational...Them pioneers done a truly amazing job...such mouth watering fruits

I thought only SoFL is a mango powerhouse, Socal is up there too...now, in my book

Thanks so much for sharing guys Mangoperro...nice expression on PEGGY

[JF]

It was a pleasure meeting Tim, Simon, Frank and it was a true honor and privilege to have meet Leo and Jim. This was the first time Eunice had visit Leo's orchard and she was thrilled! I was going to visit Paul Fisher's orchard with Jim after Leo's but there was a schedule conflict and we didn't make it this time. We are hoping to meet up in Eunice's and in my house in late April for a mango graft demonstrations by the legends. I hope Simon chimes in on this thread with some of the notes he took. Leo and Jim are the custodians of some the first mango experiments in Southern California. They are involved in the Captain Bucklew project and they have restore some of those earlier cultivars. Most of the mangos we sample were very good to excellent and some are worthy of propagation , notably, Peggy Winter's seedling that's named Ultimate...... an exceptional mango. 

[Tim]

Moorpark guy - I could only wish this is my yard at the moment.  This is the work of a local legend who I greatly respect, Leo Manuel. I did not think to ask how the wind plays a roll in his yard, but assuming it's location, looks to be well protected

[ScottR]

Tim, thanks for posting your adventure to Leo Manuel's, I've heard tails from folk's who have gone there. I've been to Eunice's before a couple times amazing Lady nice that she was able to go! I heard that Leo has a black sapote grafted onto a persimmon tree! Did you happen to see it! Very interesting get to gather lot's of CRFG knowledge in that group.

[MangoFang]

Thanks for posting this Tim - you are definitely more organized than Joe (JF) and I as we both
forgot our cameras!!!

Of course you're MUCH younger....

 

And yes, a huge thanks to Leo for being such a great host and Jim Neitzel for sharing his
wisdom along with Eunice.  We didn't realize Tim and Simon_Grow would be there so it was
lots of fun.

THanks Jackfruit for noticing that one mango just didn't look G-rated to me!


MangoPerrito

[zands]

Great meet-up and great photos. Leo Manuel has so many seedling mango trees. Did he reveal any techniques he has to get them to fruit sooner?
 He is doing so much grafting onto trees..... So it matters less what the tree starts out as, seedling or grafted.

Tip pruning might get a seedling mango tree fruiting sooner. Sources say it does this for grafted mango trees

[Tim]

ScottR - yes he did show us that persimmon tree and mentioned of the black sapote graft but unfortunately, it died not too long ago.  I think either Leo or Jim said he's got another one elsewhere but I'm not 100% certain, I was busy taking pictures

He does grow mango trees from seeds but from the looks of it, sooner or later, they get top-worked with multiple varieties.  He allows them to fruit, but doesn't limit them to just that.  During our little poly & mono seed discussion, both Jim & Leo suggested planting mono seeds isn't a terrible idea.  Considering the crosses of great/superior cultivars over many generations, your odds of getting a more than decent mango is fairly high.  Sometimes it does hit that absolute dud dormant genes but then you'd have a really strong and established rootstock

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hey Tim,

I check them pics again properly, Today I liked the pic were you made a fist  ''If don't ripen now...i'm going to kick your a**''

The multi-grafted trees sure is a supreme technology for backyard grower! Instead of having 5 trees...you have one tree with 5 cv's With 5 trees, you have 25 different named varieties   Definitely a space saver

I surely did underestimate SoCal...you guys sure got top notch mangos over there So, what's the top 5 native cultivars of South California?

[zands]

ScottR - yes he did show us that persimmon tree and mentioned of the black sapote graft but unfortunately, it died not too long ago.  I think either Leo or Jim said he's got another one elsewhere but I'm not 100% certain, I was busy taking pictures

He does grow mango trees from seeds but from the looks of it, sooner or later, they get top-worked with multiple varieties.  He allows them to fruit, but doesn't limit them to just that.  During our little poly & mono seed discussion, both Jim & Leo suggested planting mono seeds isn't a terrible idea.  Considering the crosses of great/superior cultivars over many generations, your odds of getting a more than decent mango is fairly high.  Sometimes it does hit that absolute dud dormant genes but then you'd have a really strong and established rootstock

Thanks Tim. When you are such a seasoned mango grafter like Mr Leo, you can plant what you want and graft multiple mangoes onto it later. One good thing about grafted mangoes is we know when they ripen (at least in Fl)  so we can buy the right mangoes to extend the season. I have disliked only one seedling mango I ate. But with seedling mango trees it's a crap shoot what time of season they ripen.
Meaning you can plant a mango seed and 4-5 years later you will get fruit that happens to turn out good. But when is it ripe? Same time most other mangoes are which is June-July for S Florida. So it's just more fruit overload during the mango rush hour. Meaning you have fruit rotting and you are are giving away tons too.

ZZZZzzzz

[JF]

Hey Tim,

I check them pics again properly, Today I liked the pic were you made a fist  ''If don't ripen now...i'm going to kick your a**''

The multi-grafted trees sure is a supreme technology for backyard grower! Instead of having 5 trees...you have one tree with 5 cv's With 5 trees, you have 25 different named varieties   Definitely a space saver

I surely did underestimate SoCal...you guys sure got top notch mangos over there 8) So, what's the top 5 native cultivars of South California?

My top 5

Ott
Ultimate
Villasenor
Thompson
Coconilla

Todo Santos is not from Socal it is a Mexican mango from Cabo.

Moorpark Guy

there many, many large Lychee trees around Orange County and Socal. Look at the archives..... I am sure I have pics of some of them.

MangoDog

we forgot to give our thanks to Leo's wife Betty for her warm welcome.

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi Joe,
I forgot i got OTT in the orchard Which is a native mango cultivar from SoCal

• OTT-Origin La Habra heights, William Ott, 1948. Seedling of Saigon. Tree dwarf. Fruit medium, to six inches, orange-yellow with pink blush. Season very early
• Ultimate-Didn't find no info, on this cv.

• Villaseņor-Origin Los Angeles, 1950s, Sr. Villaseņor. Tree dwarf, spreading, responds to strong rootstock. Fruit medium, to 12 oz., shape ovate, color greenish yellow, pink blush, flavor mild. Late midseason (Dec Jan). For coast, foothills.
• Thompson-(syn. Thomson Large Seedling)
  Origin Vista, Paul Thomson, 1966. Manila seedling, polyembryonic. Tree spreading, vigor dependent upon rootstock. Fruit small to medium, (6-12 oz.), yellow, shape flat, to eight inches. Resists mildew. High fiber under chemical fertilizer regime. Season early, long (September-November), ripens well indoors if picked prematurely. For coast

• Coconilla-Also didn't find any info. Though, I remember the pictures you uploaded and a quote from you ''The  Coconilla is suppose to be the Coconut Cream of California''

Thanks a bunch for sharing your Top 5 mangos from SoCal...They truly sound awesome

[nullzero]

Hey Tim,

I check them pics again properly, Today I liked the pic were you made a fist  ''If don't ripen now...i'm going to kick your a**''

The multi-grafted trees sure is a supreme technology for backyard grower! Instead of having 5 trees...you have one tree with 5 cv's With 5 trees, you have 25 different named varieties   Definitely a space saver

I surely did underestimate SoCal...you guys sure got top notch mangos over there 8) So, what's the top 5 native cultivars of South California?

My top 5

Ott
Ultimate
Villasenor
Thompson
Coconilla

Todo Santos is not from Socal it is a Mexican mango from Cabo.

Moorpark Guy

there many, many large Lychee trees around Orange County and Socal. Look at the archives..... I am sure I have pics of some of them.

MangoDog

we forgot to give our thanks to Leo's wife Betty for her warm welcome.

Where can I find these mango cultivars?

[Tim]

Joe & Gary - I know Eunice said the Carnival mangoes she brought were not up to par but from the ones sampled at Leo's, how would you rate Peggy & Early Gold?

[JF]

Hey Tim,

I check them pics again properly, Today I liked the pic were you made a fist  ''If don't ripen now...i'm going to kick your a**''

The multi-grafted trees sure is a supreme technology for backyard grower! Instead of having 5 trees...you have one tree with 5 cv's With 5 trees, you have 25 different named varieties   Definitely a space saver

I surely did underestimate SoCal...you guys sure got top notch mangos over there 8) So, what's the top 5 native cultivars of South California?

My top 5

Ott
Ultimate
Villasenor
Thompson
Coconilla

Todo Santos is not from Socal it is a Mexican mango from Cabo.

Moorpark Guy

there many, many large Lychee trees around Orange County and Socal. Look at the archives..... I am sure I have pics of some of them.

MangoDog

we forgot to give our thanks to Leo's wife Betty for her warm welcome.

Where can I find these mango cultivars?

I have Thompson. The others I am working on. I'll have some budwood to share with you in late April,May.

Steven

Unfortunately, the only varieties that are being propagated (LaVerne) in California are Thompson and Villaseņor. Coconilla is Eunice Messner mango.

[JF]

Joe & Gary - I know Eunice said the Carnival mangoes she brought were not up to par but from the ones sampled at Leo's, how would you rate Peggy & Early Gold?

Tim

Jim told me that Peggy's is called Ultimate, or something like that, because there is another variety in Florida by the same last name of Winter(20222). The Early Gold we had was a chance seedling of that variety from Captain Bucklew. I will call Jim and confirm. I think both of those mangos are excellent. Like I said, I don't know why they havent been propagated....they are superior mangos in the same category as Dot or Fairchild.

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi Joe,

So, Coconilla is a seedling tree from Eunice Messner That explains why there is no info online.

[Felipe]

Tim, thank you very much for sharing the pictures and information! Great paparazzi skills... LOL

Looks like you all had a great time. On the other had it's also great to get all the experience and expertise from such horticulture veterans!

BTW, very cute mango eating ladys you have there... looks like the next fruitlover generation

[zands]

Tim spent a lot of time on photographs and captions and posting them. Some of those tropical fruit elders have few or none photographs on the internet. So now they are there for people to look and learn from in the future. Ha...looks like Tim's daughters eating mango

[MangoFang]

Mr. Jackfruit - the Coconilla from what I remember Eunice saying, was a chance Manilla seedling
that apparently has coconut overtones - I've never tasted one to see.

Tim - I loved the Peggy Winter (Ie Ultimate mango or whatever it may be) - I thought it was the superior tasting one of the bunch we tasted.  The Carnival was so-so in comparison.  I don't remember the Early Gold - but I think it must have still fell short of Ms. Peggy......

"Thank you BETTY (Leo's wife) for ushering us into your tropical heaven!!!!!!"



Fang of the Mango

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi MangoFang,

I checked out Manilla mango on Google images, from what i noticed is that Atualfo and Coconilla have some thing in common...they are both offsprings of the Manilla Mango

[Tim]

Betty Manuel was first class.

lol  I always use my fists as size reference cuz it's gnarly big.

Thank you Zands & Felipe for the kind remarks as well.  Just happy to share an enjoyable day.  You know, I thought Leo would kick me out off his property for that behind the bush shot

mangofang - I'm only a couple years younger, don't short change yourself.

JF - thanks for the Peggy/Ultimate clarification.  You guys speak so highly of Thomson mangoes, I wonder how much flavor improvement from the Manila?  I like Manila but that's because they're always available.