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Author Topic: Mango dwarfing to citrus  (Read 512 times)

lebmung

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Mango dwarfing to citrus
« on: May 08, 2019, 10:17:35 AM »
As some of you are familiar with the Japanese dwarfing methods for mango, where they grow horizontally less then 1.5m, could this be applied to citrus, forcing a high productivity in a small place in a greenhouse?

brian

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2019, 10:21:49 AM »
Can you provide more information on the method you describe?  Google doesn't turn up anything when I search for "Japanese dwarfing methods for mango"

Laaz

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2019, 10:37:58 AM »
Espalier method maybe...

Pancrazio

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Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade the following scions: Mango Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Citrus shiranui/US Seedless Surprise. Contact me in PM if interested.

lebmung

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 04:27:50 PM »
Yes, that method I was referring to. It seems like it can be applied to mangoes, avocados, star fruit and others. This summer I will try it with my mangoes to see how it goes. Very good information by Dr.Yonemoto.
It refers to gravity. Forcing the tree seems like it makes it productive and dwarf. Of course not any mango, but what they grow has a small to medium canopy. So I guess a citrus grafted on P trifoliata would work as well.

brian

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
That's an awesome article!  Thank you for posting a link.  To me, the important claims here are:

  • external limb & fruit support encourages fruiting by way of less wasted structural growth
Seems reasonable.  Neat idea

  • regular, severe pruning
  • limiting root growth
  • limiting vertical growth
None of these things reduce fruit yield per sqft?  I would assume they would


This method also looks very labor intensive.  It makes sense to me for a greenhouse where the cost per sqft is far higher than growing mangoes outdoors.  The article claims growers are getting $3-5USD each for their mangoes.  The USDA retail websites says mangoes retail in US for ~$1.50/each,   This website https://novagrim.com/prices lists wholesale mango prices as ~1euro/kg.  I am skeptical that doing all this work makes economic sense.  I wonder why Japan doesn't import them instead?

In any case, I am very interested because I have a greenhouse where space is at a premium.  If it works for these fruits I can't imagine why it wouldn't work for citrus.

 I'm not sure I want a bunch of wires hanging in my greenhouse everywhere, though, it already drives me crazy with anything in the way there.  Supporting tree limbs and trunks using stiff wire to a post adjacent to the trunk might be tolerable - like staking tomatoes.   I am already doing this for some to keep the branches from touching the floor and getting ripped off when moving the hose around.  I wonder about the root binding also... wouldn't closely-planted, shallow-rooted trees like citrus already have limited root growth because the roots of adjacent trees will be up against each other?  Maybe mangoes and avocadoes have deeper roots.  Finally, are they wasting climate-controlled greenhouse space by limiting vertical growth?  Why not have a lower roof at least?  Unless sunlight is the limiting factor.


BTW my favorite part is the "mangoes out - money in" graphic  :D

« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 09:40:39 PM by brian »

brian

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 10:02:20 PM »
"monies in - mango out" is more accurate for us...


Ilya11

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2019, 03:28:11 AM »
This method also looks very labor intensive.  It makes sense to me for a greenhouse where the cost per sqft is far higher than growing mangoes outdoors.  The article claims growers are getting $3-5USD each for their mangoes.  The USDA retail websites says mangoes retail in US for ~$1.50/each,   This website https://novagrim.com/prices lists wholesale mango prices as ~1euro/kg.  I am skeptical that doing all this work makes economic sense.  I wonder why Japan doesn't import them instead?

The price is 95 US$/piece for the high quality domestic fruit.
Explanation why

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23380.0
Best regards,
                       Ilya

brian

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2019, 09:34:07 AM »
Wow, just read your PDF.   I'm glad there is such a market for this that it can fund exotic grow methods.   It seems insane to me to pay these prices for fruit, but I feel the same way about expensive wine, Kobe beef, etc.  I'm glad somebody wants it enough to pay for it, and the rest of us can learn from their systems.

lebmung

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2019, 06:13:46 PM »
I wonder about the root binding also... wouldn't closely-planted, shallow-rooted trees like citrus already have limited root growth because the roots of adjacent trees will be up against each other?  Maybe mangoes and avocadoes have deeper roots. 

You didn't read carefully. How they grow, the trees don't become root bound at all.
Why? because when they make the rootsock they dwarf it and they grow inside a breathable fabric that prunes the roots. The trees are not grown in the soil. I tested growing in fabric bags with Papayas I can tell you no root bound, but you need uniform watering.
And yes mangoes have a very deep tap root, but not in their case. Actually the whole process looks like an oversize bonsai.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 06:34:45 PM by lebmung »

saltyreefer

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2019, 03:37:44 PM »
I sorta did this with a Glenn mango, I weighted the main branches down to get them to grow horizontally.
So far I can remove the tie downs as the main branches stay horizontal. The tree is only 3-4 years old

Bomand

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Re: Mango dwarfing to citrus
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2019, 03:58:07 PM »
Another "bonsai" maneuver as I perceive it. Labor intensive and time consuming. Not space saving by any means. Mangos are inexpensive and I do not see this route as monetarily. Might work for citrus. You gotta love it to do it. Might try it just for fun

 

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