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Author Topic: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.  (Read 327 times)

JoeReal

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Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« on: May 14, 2019, 12:32:35 AM »
Perhaps a very important observation that has been bugging me for a while now and so I have to share it. Shown below are potted Sparkleberry and grafted Boukhobza blood orange. These plants had normal blooms last year but this year they bloomed like crazy!!! The only difference is that my dear wife sneaked in and planted some succulents on these pots! I know from more than 40 years ago that most succulents have allelopathic effects on other plants, it was one of my Science Fair projects during my first year high school. Perhaps this yearís way above normal blooms that I have observed may have been triggered by the chemicals excreted by the clandestinely added succulents. Since I donít have the luxury of time and space to verify my observations, perhaps you can replicate and validate my suspicions. It would make for a very interesting graduate research studies or undergraduate thesis. Perhaps you can just acknowledge my observations if you have observed it in your formal research studies.












SoCal2warm

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 01:35:02 AM »
It's possible, I know willow roots pump chemicals into the soil that make surrounding plants root more. Willow tea can even be used as a natural rooting hormone.

pvaldes

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 05:17:34 AM »
Probably not:

The succulents are Crassula tetragona (most probably) and Kalanchoe Blossfeldiana, Both in the Family Crassulaceae. None of those plants are strongly invasive

Then we have a Vaccinium from acid soils and a Citrus.

Massive floration in Citrus is not necessarily good. Many dying trees put all their efforts in flowers in a defoliate tree, but the tree looks fine. Probably not this case.

My main candidate is that the new soil added with the Crassulaceae have been enriched with fertilizer or even some fungus. Either adding or solving (unblocking) access to some nutrient or micronutrient esential for flowering (i.e. Potasium). Kalanchoe is a flowering plant that is cultured and feeded for promoting a good floration. This will be a temporary solution in any case. Not permanent.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 05:24:57 AM by pvaldes »

Sylvain

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 08:12:27 AM »
The effect could be physical instead of chemical.
I don't know the termes in English, so I shall use common words.
Each plant has a strength to take water out of the dirt.
When the water in the dirt goes down the plant takes less and less water. When the plant reaches its limit,it wilt. Then the quantity of water in the soil decreases slowly because the plant doesn't take anymore significant quantity of water.
Succulent plant have much higher strength to take out water.
If you put a succulent at the same place the quantity of water will decrease faster and shall not slow down when the citrus reaches its limit, "over drying" the dirt.
The stress is much stronger than without the succulent, provoking a strong bloom ( wich, as said before, is not always a good sign).

Here I see the limit of my English... ;)

SeaWalnut

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 08:16:32 AM »
If the succulents release allelopathic chemicals ,it could be possible that the stong blooms are because the trees feel threatened by the succulents and they try to breed in case they dont make it till next year.All plants are allelopathic ,somme much more than otthers.For succulents wich i assume they grow on poore soil and harsh weather where they dont have much competition from otther plants ,id expect them to be less allelopathic.

Luisport

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 08:20:27 AM »
Perhaps a very important observation that has been bugging me for a while now and so I have to share it. Shown below are potted Sparkleberry and grafted Boukhobza blood orange. These plants had normal blooms last year but this year they bloomed like crazy!!! The only difference is that my dear wife sneaked in and planted some succulents on these pots! I know from more than 40 years ago that most succulents have allelopathic effects on other plants, it was one of my Science Fair projects during my first year high school. Perhaps this yearís way above normal blooms that I have observed may have been triggered by the chemicals excreted by the clandestinely added succulents. Since I donít have the luxury of time and space to verify my observations, perhaps you can replicate and validate my suspicions. It would make for a very interesting graduate research studies or undergraduate thesis. Perhaps you can just acknowledge my observations if you have observed it in your formal research studies.











Hello my friend! Fabulous posts as usual!
Do you think i should plant suculents below my citrus trees? Thank's!

hardyvermont

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 08:40:17 AM »
What species of succulents are in the pots?

JoeReal

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 10:29:41 AM »
What species of succulents are in the pots?

The one with the red flowers are Kalanchoe blossfeldiana, and the other one I think is Icicle succulent.

JoeReal

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 10:34:09 AM »
Probably not:

The succulents are Crassula tetragona (most probably) and Kalanchoe Blossfeldiana, Both in the Family Crassulaceae. None of those plants are strongly invasive

Then we have a Vaccinium from acid soils and a Citrus.

Massive floration in Citrus is not necessarily good. Many dying trees put all their efforts in flowers in a defoliate tree, but the tree looks fine. Probably not this case.

My main candidate is that the new soil added with the Crassulaceae have been enriched with fertilizer or even some fungus. Either adding or solving (unblocking) access to some nutrient or micronutrient esential for flowering (i.e. Potasium). Kalanchoe is a flowering plant that is cultured and feeded for promoting a good floration. This will be a temporary solution in any case. Not permanent.

My wife added the Kalanchoe and the other succulent by just breaking off a stem from her collection and inserting it into the soil of my potted plant. It has no soil nor other amendments added.

More than 40 years ago, I did Science Fair germination experiments with extracts of Kalanchoe and it was proven without a doubt about its allelopathy. The various plant responses would be depending upon the dosage. And perhaps such dosage was enough to induce above normal blooms for these clandestinely planted succulents.

Anyway, there are tons of literature you can dig from Google Scholar:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=allelopathic+effect+of+kalanchoe&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

It is interesting that there could be various interactions, not only with succulents but with other plants as they wage chemical warfare underground, and let's keep an open mind that one of such reactions of affected plants would be profuse blooming as a stress response.

I usually think this way as I have graduate studies in Ecology so I am always keen to interactions between and among components (biotic, abiotic, energy and mass exchanges) of Ecosystems whether it's natural, backyard, agricultural or extraterrestrial.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 10:45:33 AM by JoeReal »

tve

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 12:08:38 PM »
Here I see the limit of my English... ;)
Hey, you did great, plenty clear! I find it great that there are people from Europe and other places on this forum and if that requires some language bending and/or translation, then that's fine with me. I think it would also be fine to post a paragraph in duplicate in your native language.

Laaz

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 12:20:56 PM »
As was written long ago in ancient times. They would let the citrus dry out almost to the point of death & then water it to promote blooms. I think Mike has it posted somewhere on his site.

http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/

JoeReal

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Re: Unusual observation when planting with succulents.
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 01:30:47 PM »
As was written long ago in ancient times. They would let the citrus dry out almost to the point of death & then water it to promote blooms. I think Mike has it posted somewhere on his site.

http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/


It's been in the literature... many things can be done to induce blooming by stress... among those I have experienced are of course water stress, temperature stress, photoperiod stress, pests and diseases too can induce stress... and this underground chemical warfare from other plants planted near their roots and excreting chemicals at the proper dosage can trigger a lot of blooming response too and we don't have much literature about it.

 

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