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Author Topic: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch  (Read 1227 times)

SeaWalnut

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Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« on: May 30, 2019, 08:40:16 AM »
Ive colected sphagnum moss from somme concrete slabs and i covered my 60 litters pot (15 gal) with Ugni Molinae plants.Its first time i do this but in Japan they like to grow moss instead of grass.

brian

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 09:50:20 AM »
I have a ton of moss growing around my property that I was planning to pull up and do *something* with.  I'm curious if moss around roots would contribute to rot the same way mulch is repoted to.

BTW, I think sphagnum moss is a particular type of moss that grows in peat bogs, and what you and I have is likely some other kind of moss.   I don't know much about it.  When people read sphagnum moss they likely think of the bagged non-living moss sold as a soil amendment.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 09:54:34 AM by brian »

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 04:56:32 PM »
There are two main reasons for not using sphagnum moss; firstly, harvesting it is very ecologically deleterious and bad for the environment generally, and secondly it tends to act as a very good medium for growing nasty fungal infections. It also doesn't hold water as well as coconut fiber. nor last as long as this. Most major nurseries here in Australia have switched to coconut  at this stage. It's basically better in every way, and it's cheaper.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 05:31:30 PM »
There are two main reasons for not using sphagnum moss; firstly, harvesting it is very ecologically deleterious and bad for the environment generally, and secondly it tends to act as a very good medium for growing nasty fungal infections. It also doesn't hold water as well as coconut fiber. nor last as long as this. Most major nurseries here in Australia have switched to coconut  at this stage. It's basically better in every way, and it's cheaper.
Coconut choir its not better because it has much higher ph than that of moss and the moss contains substances that kill pathogens and fungi.Its sterile and was even used to wrap soldiers wounds.Its true thats not eco friendly to harvest the moss but somme people can get it from cut logs for fire wood that are covered in moss and otther places like i did from somme concrete slabs.Dont collect it from the woods .

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 05:47:17 PM »
There are two main reasons for not using sphagnum moss; firstly, harvesting it is very ecologically deleterious and bad for the environment generally, and secondly it tends to act as a very good medium for growing nasty fungal infections. It also doesn't hold water as well as coconut fiber. nor last as long as this. Most major nurseries here in Australia have switched to coconut  at this stage. It's basically better in every way, and it's cheaper.
Coconut choir its not better because it has much higher ph than that of moss and the moss contains substances that kill pathogens and fungi.Its sterile and was even used to wrap soldiers wounds.Its true thats not eco friendly to harvest the moss but somme people can get it from cut logs for fire wood that are covered in moss and otther places like i did from somme concrete slabs.Dont collect it from the woods .

You're referring to fissiden sp and other mosses, not the 'sphagnum' moss that is sold at hardware stores and is harvested from peat bogs.  Coconut coir has a PH of between 5--6, so it's effectively neutral, which is ideal. If you're trying to raise or lower your PH through mulch, you're not doing it right anyway.  Once sphagnum dries out it is very difficult to get wet again, and becomes a breeding ground for bad fungi. This isn't an issue with coir.

There is no reason to use sphagnum , and no professional nursery that I know of still does.
The moss in the photograph you have provided is not sphagnum moss.
Just facts. Take them as you will.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 05:50:20 PM by Standardbloke »

brian

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 05:56:51 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 06:03:34 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

It's worth finding. If you've not tried in, I strongly recommend you do. You will simply never go back. Get the really fine stuff that has about the same consistency as coffee grounds. Usually it comes pressed in to dry bricks, and you just add water. It's the best soil additive for water retention, drainage and root development I've found. Added to your mix at around 1/4 it's amazing. The chunky, bark-like stuff is an excellent top dressing mulch. On top of that it's the best seed germinating medium I've tried too.

Guarantee you guys in the states have it. I use stuff like this:

https://aussieenvironmental.com.au/product/coir-peat-coco-mulch-5kg-brick-3pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteysyKDE4gIVwTUrCh2x0QZBEAQYASABEgKz8PD_BwE

spaugh

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 06:09:01 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

It's worth finding. If you've not tried in, I strongly recommend you do. You will simply never go back. Get the really fine stuff that has about the same consistency as coffee grounds. Usually it comes pressed in to dry bricks, and you just add water. It's the best soil additive for water retention, drainage and root development I've found. Added to your mix at around 1/4 it's amazing. The chunky, bark-like stuff is an excellent top dressing mulch. On top of that it's the best seed germinating medium I've tried too.

Guarantee you guys in the states have it. I use stuff like this:

https://aussieenvironmental.com.au/product/coir-peat-coco-mulch-5kg-brick-3pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteysyKDE4gIVwTUrCh2x0QZBEAQYASABEgKz8PD_BwE

They sell it at my local nursery and on amazon.  It is good stuff but its pretty expensive.
Brad Spaugh

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 06:16:22 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

It's worth finding. If you've not tried in, I strongly recommend you do. You will simply never go back. Get the really fine stuff that has about the same consistency as coffee grounds. Usually it comes pressed in to dry bricks, and you just add water. It's the best soil additive for water retention, drainage and root development I've found. Added to your mix at around 1/4 it's amazing. The chunky, bark-like stuff is an excellent top dressing mulch. On top of that it's the best seed germinating medium I've tried too.

Guarantee you guys in the states have it. I use stuff like this:

https://aussieenvironmental.com.au/product/coir-peat-coco-mulch-5kg-brick-3pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteysyKDE4gIVwTUrCh2x0QZBEAQYASABEgKz8PD_BwE

They sell it at my local nursery and on amazon.  It is good stuff but its pretty expensive.


literally $9USD per 5kg brick. Add water and you've got 2 1/5 cubic feet of the stuff.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5kg-Bricks-11-LBS-Coconut-Coir-Soil-Amendment-Growing-Medium-Hydroponics/372658545312?hash=item56c42e22a0:g:q0kAAOSwkERcG5Rx
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:19:08 PM by Standardbloke »

spaugh

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 06:25:07 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

It's worth finding. If you've not tried in, I strongly recommend you do. You will simply never go back. Get the really fine stuff that has about the same consistency as coffee grounds. Usually it comes pressed in to dry bricks, and you just add water. It's the best soil additive for water retention, drainage and root development I've found. Added to your mix at around 1/4 it's amazing. The chunky, bark-like stuff is an excellent top dressing mulch. On top of that it's the best seed germinating medium I've tried too.

Guarantee you guys in the states have it. I use stuff like this:

https://aussieenvironmental.com.au/product/coir-peat-coco-mulch-5kg-brick-3pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteysyKDE4gIVwTUrCh2x0QZBEAQYASABEgKz8PD_BwE

They sell it at my local nursery and on amazon.  It is good stuff but its pretty expensive.


literally $9USD per 5kg brick. Add water and you've got 2 1/5 cubic feet of the stuff.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5kg-Bricks-11-LBS-Coconut-Coir-Soil-Amendment-Growing-Medium-Hydroponics/372658545312?hash=item56c42e22a0:g:q0kAAOSwkERcG5Rx

Yeah 9$ plus 20$ shipping for 11lbs of "dirt" is not cheap.  I grow a ton of stuff, 2cu feet is not a lot of soil. 

Its about 14$ for a block at the local store.

But I agree with you that the stuff is awesome.  I do use it in a lot of my potting mixes.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:26:54 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2019, 06:29:31 PM »
Coconut choir cant beat peat moss ph of usually 4.So for lowering the ph wich its why i use it ,the coconut choir its inferior and actually non usable for me as a soil ammendment because i need to have soil with 5-6 ph.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:49:53 PM by SeaWalnut »

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2019, 06:31:26 PM »
Sphagnum peat moss is readily available, I've never seen coco coir for sale in any retail outlet I've visited.

It's worth finding. If you've not tried in, I strongly recommend you do. You will simply never go back. Get the really fine stuff that has about the same consistency as coffee grounds. Usually it comes pressed in to dry bricks, and you just add water. It's the best soil additive for water retention, drainage and root development I've found. Added to your mix at around 1/4 it's amazing. The chunky, bark-like stuff is an excellent top dressing mulch. On top of that it's the best seed germinating medium I've tried too.

Guarantee you guys in the states have it. I use stuff like this:

https://aussieenvironmental.com.au/product/coir-peat-coco-mulch-5kg-brick-3pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteysyKDE4gIVwTUrCh2x0QZBEAQYASABEgKz8PD_BwE

They sell it at my local nursery and on amazon.  It is good stuff but its pretty expensive.


literally $9USD per 5kg brick. Add water and you've got 2 1/5 cubic feet of the stuff.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5kg-Bricks-11-LBS-Coconut-Coir-Soil-Amendment-Growing-Medium-Hydroponics/372658545312?hash=item56c42e22a0:g:q0kAAOSwkERcG5Rx

Yeah 9$ plus 20$ shipping for 11lbs of "dirt" is not cheap.  I grow a ton of stuff, 2cu feet is not a lot of soil. 

Its about 14$ for a block at the local store.

But I agree with you that the stuff is awesome.  I do use it in a lot of my potting mixes.

Granted, but you wouldn't use it like dirt. As I said and so did you, you use it as an additive, as a mulch, or a sprouting medium. It is on balance cheaper than sphagnum.It's also better in every way. The whole thread is about a comparison between it and sphagnum.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2019, 06:44:55 PM »
The thread is about using live sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch wich its dead matter.I didnt mix them with the soil. The moss,altough it looks beaten and almost brown ,it will soon become green and start to grow and look better.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:48:57 PM by SeaWalnut »

Standardbloke

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2019, 07:01:58 PM »
The thread is about using live sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch wich its dead matter.I didnt mix them with the soil.

Again, you're not talking about sphagnum moss. The moss in your photograph is not sphagnum moss. It's something from a different genus entirely. And yes, the moss of your kind as a 'mulch' is fine to use. In nurseries it often grows over the top layer of the soil naturally. That said, it's not going to be viable as a true mulch for anything more than situationally for the long term. You will burn it and kill it whenever you try to add topical fertilizers or nutrients. it will die off when you move the tree in to direct sunlight because it requires shade. The seedlings in your picture do not even require any mulch at all, in fact--and probably aren't even benefiting from the presence of the moss in any way. Perhaps this aids in water retention slightly more uniform soil moisture, but beyond that it's not doing anything at all. This is actually the way mosses contribute to the biocycle; they keep soil wetter for longer, which aids in decomposition of organic matter, which contributes to a more readily available nutrient (especially carbon) density available for plant uptake. They also aid in  in situ fungi development which is beneficial to root health, but again, that's all got to do with moisture. Unless there's leaves and wood buried in your mix, this effect is not doing anything for the overall health of those seedlings. It isn't hurting them, either. It's just not doing anything at all.It's fine for tiny little seedings, but it's not a practical, nor intelligent, solution to anything beyond this. If it was, professionals would be doing it, and they aren't.
 

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2019, 07:14:35 PM »
The thread is about using live sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch wich its dead matter.I didnt mix them with the soil.

Again, you're not talking about sphagnum moss. The moss in your photograph is not sphagnum moss. It's something from a different genus entirely. And yes, the moss of your kind as a 'mulch' is fine to use. In nurseries it often grows over the top layer of the soil naturally. That said, it's not going to be viable as a true mulch for anything more than situationally for the long term. You will burn it and kill it whenever you try to add topical fertilizers or nutrients. it will die off when you move the tree in to direct sunlight because it requires shade. The seedlings in your picture do not even require any mulch at all, in fact--and probably aren't even benefiting from the presence of the moss in any way. Perhaps this aids in water retention slightly more uniform soil moisture, but beyond that it's not doing anything at all. This is actually the way mosses contribute to the biocycle; they keep soil wetter for longer, which aids in decomposition of organic matter, which contributes to a more readily available nutrient (especially carbon) density available for plant uptake. They also aid in  in situ fungi development which is beneficial to root health, but again, that's all got to do with moisture. Unless there's leaves and wood buried in your mix, this effect is not doing anything for the overall health of those seedlings. It isn't hurting them, either. It's just not doing anything at all.It's fine for tiny little seedings, but it's not a practical, nor intelligent, solution to anything beyond this. If it was, professionals would be doing it, and they aren't.
That in the picture its real sphagnum moss and it even has sphagnum moss peat underneath it( the peat its brown moss and the green one grows on top of it).Its not from another genus.The soil in the pot has a 50/50 mix with peat moss ( brown stuff like coconut choir) wich i bought and black clay soil from my garden.Those Ugni plants like the shade and moisture and low ph just like the moss and if im able to grow Ugni and moss in the same pot ,i think its a win-win situation. I also added mycorrhiza fungi fertiliser to that pot soil mix.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:17:55 PM by SeaWalnut »

pineislander

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2019, 07:28:13 AM »
It would be interesting to check the ph of your moss. This reference mentions that the live moss has a neutral ph while the peat has an acidic ph.
https://garden.org/ideas/view/drdawg/1972/Sphagnum-Moss-vs-Peat-Moss/

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sphagnum moss cover instead of mulch
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 08:24:57 AM »
It would be interesting to check the ph of your moss. This reference mentions that the live moss has a neutral ph while the peat has an acidic ph.
https://garden.org/ideas/view/drdawg/1972/Sphagnum-Moss-vs-Peat-Moss/
The live moss i used to cover my pot has maybe 2cm (1inch) of peat wich is dead moss that accumulates over time and that has low ph probably @ 4.The live moss on the surface its neutral.

 

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