Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: yuzu hybrid  (Read 595 times)

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
yuzu hybrid
« on: May 30, 2019, 07:42:02 PM »

 I have a little idiot question about yuzu. I knew that yuzu was actually a hybrid citrus; however, it is very seedy and less juicy. I just wonder whether or not there exists a yuzu hybrid which offer a better quality than yuzu lemon.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 12:57:40 AM »
There's a particular variety of Yuzu called Hana Yuzu, but it's nearly impossible to find outside of Japan.

Yuzu also isn't a direct hybrid. But if you wanted to try creating your own new hybrid of "Yuzu", you could try crossing Citrus ichangensis with a mandarin like Satsuma, or a sour mandarin variety (which aren't too common).

Still likely to have lots of seeds. If that's primary issue, there are ways around that but it's too complicated to bring up here.

Also what you have to realize is that Yuzu is not quite used exactly like a regular lemon. It is not so much valued for its juice as it is its fragrant rind. And that rind is a little bit more tender, edible and less bitter than the rind of an ordinary lemon.
Slice the Yuzu, remove the big seeds, and then dice it all into smaller shreds, not removing peel. Many culinary uses, flavoring sauces, or for baking.
In Japan sometimes they press the Yuzu to remove the juice combined with the fragrant oils from the peel, probably a good idea to remove the seeds first before pressing (since crushed seeds might impart a slight off flavor). If you go to a large Japanese market you will be very likely to find Yuzu extract (it might be mixed with salt to help preserve it).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 01:10:23 AM by SoCal2warm »

Oolie

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 04:07:44 AM »

Radoslav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • Slovakia
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 04:30:59 AM »

 I have a little idiot question about yuzu. I knew that yuzu was actually a hybrid citrus; however, it is very seedy and less juicy. I just wonder whether or not there exists a yuzu hybrid which offer a better quality than yuzu lemon.



There is a cultivar called nishiki tada (yuzu seedless), but those who grow it, say that the juice is less tasty then standard yuzu.



Sylvain

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Bergerac, France
    • View Profile
    • Looking for Wakonai.
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 04:51:31 AM »
Fact checking:
> There's a particular variety of Yuzu called Hana Yuzu, but it's nearly impossible to find outside of Japan.
In Europe we have all the kinds of yuzu.

> you could try crossing Citrus ichangensis with a mandarin like Satsuma, or a sour mandarin variety.
This cross has no relation with what is yuzu.

Laaz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 822
    • Charleston, SC 9a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 06:58:24 AM »
Fact checking:
> There's a particular variety of Yuzu called Hana Yuzu, but it's nearly impossible to find outside of Japan.
In Europe we have all the kinds of yuzu.

> you could try crossing Citrus ichangensis with a mandarin like Satsuma, or a sour mandarin variety.
This cross has no relation with what is yuzu.


I'm telling you Sylvain he must be related to you know who... 

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 01:21:32 PM »
> you could try crossing Citrus ichangensis with a mandarin like Satsuma, or a sour mandarin variety.
This cross has no relation with what is yuzu.
I came across an old reference stating that this cross was nearly identical to Yuzu, or very similar.

Sorry, didn't save the link.

Edit:

" Swingle and Reece (1967) noted that: [] hybrids that show astonishing similarity to the Yuzu have now been produced in this country between the Ichang papeda and the satsuma orange (a form of C. reticulata ). "

https://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/factsheet.php?name=Yuzu
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 01:25:28 PM by SoCal2warm »

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 06:08:04 PM »

  Thank everyone for the info, but I don't plan to live that many more years in the US to have sufficient time to cross breed any type of cold hardy citrus. I will have probably left before a successfully new breed arrive.  I am currently looking for some existing one that can be grown in my zone 8a to satisfy temporarily my thirst of citrus while I am still here. My country where I was born is a tropical region which offers so many different types of excellent citrus fruits and many other tropical fruits as well.

kumin

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
    • USA PA 6b
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 06:28:37 PM »
One option might be selecting a cultivar that satisfies your taste requirements and protecting the tree during the coldest part of the winter.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 08:41:26 PM »
One option might be selecting a cultivar that satisfies your taste requirements and protecting the tree during the coldest part of the winter.

 Thank you, kumin for that great idea; however, I wanted to try cold hardy citrus because I live just right off the border of citrus zone, so I thought I could try some type of citrus that can push its zone to 8a. It is not worth it to bring a big tree pot in and out over the winter. Moreover, since have a bad memory, I will one day leave them shivered outside in winter.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 09:30:29 PM »
Satsuma might be borderline for zone 8a in your climate in the South, and would benefit from just a tiny bit of protection, or an optimal spot where it doesn't get so cold, but it's definitely not going to survive in 7b.

You might also look into orangequat. That's just a tiny bit hardier than Satsuma.
(Petals from the Past nursery in Jemison, Alabama carries it, but it shouldn't be too hard to find in Georgia)

Also take a look at this thread for further information:
Orange tree in zone 8
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29551.0

Though be aware, where you live is colder than those places in Texas cited in the link. Even kumquat trees with light protection won't survive outside in Atlanta. Atlanta is definitely not the same zone 8a that Dallas is. And Smyrna, where you live, is just a bit slightly colder than Atlanta. I don't know if anything that tastes really good can survive where you are.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 04:25:14 PM by SoCal2warm »

Samodelkin

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
    • Simferopol 7b
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 02:11:33 AM »
Citrus ichangensis IVIA. Photo green fruit. The quality is comparable to lime. The juice is sour, the seeds a bit. Unpleasant oil in the skin


lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2019, 07:15:34 AM »
Satsuma might be borderline for zone 8a in your climate in the South, and would benefit from just a tiny bit of protection, or an optimal spot where it doesn't get so cold, but it's definitely not going to survive in 7b.

You might also look into orangequat. That's just a tiny bit hardier than Satsuma.
(Petals from the Past nursery in Jemison, Alabama carries it, but it shouldn't be too hard to find in Georgia)

Also take a look at this thread for further information:
Orange tree in zone 8
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29551.0

Though be aware, where you live is colder than those places in Texas cited in the link. Even kumquat trees with light protection won't survive outside in Atlanta. Atlanta is definitely not the same zone 8a that Atlanta is. And Smyrna, where you live, is just a bit slightly colder than Atlanta. I don't know if anything that tastes really good can survive where you are.


   I have 5 diferent types of best jujube and 4 different type of best-tasted perssimon. Citrus is just an addition to my garden since mine is almost out of space. Moreover, I already had seedless citrangequat for candy making. Orange and Satsuma, Mandarine... are pretty low priced year round. Daily fresh crushed orange juice is only $7.99 for a 1/2 gallon at Samsclub. I am currently aiming for yuzu because I guess its leaves would taste and smell similar to lemon leaves. Lemon is usually priced at 5 for $1.

  The reason I want seedless yuzu because it would save a trip to the store to get lemon at its fruiting season. Secondly, I don't prefer something that had seed because I thought seedless citrus would have lower chances to cross pollinate with my citrangequat. I try to avoid off tasted fruit because I will use each for a different culinary job.

   I understand that the need from every single person would be different. I was not a big fan of citrus, but do need it for some culinary jobs. The grocery  stores rarely sell lemon leaves, and kumquat price are too expensive to make candy. Last year, my sister from California had shipped a big box of 20 lb of nagami kumquat to me to make candy. The outcome was 2 pound of candy out of 20 lb fresh kumquat. And Nagami Kumquat fruits here are priced at $5.99 per lb. So Citrangequat was the right choice for me. I just need year round lemon leaves then that is it for next 10 years.

   Moreover, my land is located in a special micro climate zone 8a, I guess because of hills running around my land covering all 3 sides which protect the land from extreme cold wind. My land is little yierd since its summer is not badly hot even though it is extremely hot everywhere, while the winter is a bit warmer than the surrounding. I have never turn on the AC in the summer for 7 years I lived in this house, and I guess at this moment the AC is not no longer functioned correctly for its 7 years idling.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 08:26:37 AM by lavender87 »

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2019, 02:09:06 PM »
 Is sudachi seedless or less seeded? Is it as cold hardy as yuzu? Does its leaves taste and smell similar to yuzu?

Radoslav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • Slovakia
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2019, 03:37:50 PM »
Is sudachi seedless or less seeded? Is it as cold hardy as yuzu? Does its leaves taste and smell similar to yuzu?


There are several sudachi cultivars, seeded or seedless.

Btw. why you are looking for lemon (citrus limon) leaves? In Europe, in subtropical areas, citrus medica (Cedro or Citron) leaves  are used not lemon.

For example for famous Kitron (citron) liquor.
https://www.greektravel.com/greekislands/naxos/citronphotos/index.htm
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 03:43:50 PM by Radoslav »

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2019, 04:30:53 PM »
I am currently aiming for yuzu because I guess its leaves would taste and smell similar to lemon leaves.
It doesn't smell like lemon, but smells as good as lemon, just in its own unique way.
I like to compare it to a mix of fragrant sour orange, lemon, Satsuma mandarin, and maybe even a tiny hint of grapefruit all mixed together, but it's also uniquely deep and spicy in its own unique way.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2019, 04:37:20 PM »
Is sudachi seedless or less seeded? Is it as cold hardy as yuzu?
It appears to be nearly as cold hardy as Yuzu, if not equal in hardiness.
I think it has slightly less seeds, but the standard variety is still pretty seedy. They're normally picked green because that's when the flavor is at its best. Picked when orange, they're not really sour enough to use like a lemon.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2019, 04:43:00 PM »
The grocery  stores rarely sell lemon leaves
The only citrus leaves that I am aware of that are appropriate for culinary uses are citron and kaffir lime.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2019, 04:49:59 PM »
   Moreover, my land is located in a special micro climate zone 8a,
I suspect it still won't be as easy to grow where you are as it is in Dallas, and Dallas is already very marginal for citrus. But I'm not entirely sure.
I can't tell you if things like Satsuma and kumquats could survive, even with some light protection. Certainly other standard citrus won't.
If you really wanted to take the risk, you could find out. I'd strongly suggest at least some light protection, and maybe plant up against your home for added warmth.

Laaz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 822
    • Charleston, SC 9a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2019, 05:13:18 PM »
lavender87 no, sudachi is  full of seeds & not quite as hardy a yuzu. The leaves are nothing like lemon at all.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2019, 05:58:14 PM »

There are several sudachi cultivars, seeded or seedless.

Btw. why you are looking for lemon (citrus limon) leaves? In Europe, in subtropical areas, citrus medica (Cedro or Citron) leaves  are used not lemon.

For example for famous Kitron (citron) liquor.
https://www.greektravel.com/greekislands/naxos/citronphotos/index.htm

  Oh I did not know the use of other citrus leaves that far different than the taste of lemon leaves. I am asian and the use of lemon leaves over there was very common to proccess chicken, salmon fish, grilled meat... I am not sure about the use of pomelo leaves in culinary, but in my country people use pomelo leaves to process medicine for cold, flue, skin irritation, hair growth..., but not for food proccessing for its smell is too strong.

  I did not have a chance to taste the leaves of citrus medica, citron to see whether or not it fit my cookling needs. I would appreciate so much if you can describe the taste of a citron leaf compared to a lemon leaf.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 07:43:46 AM by lavender87 »

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2019, 06:00:57 PM »
lavender87 no, sudachi is  full of seeds & not quite as hardy a yuzu. The leaves are nothing like lemon at all.

 Thank Laaz, your provided info is very useful.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2019, 06:09:28 PM »
The grocery  stores rarely sell lemon leaves
The only citrus leaves that I am aware of that are appropriate for culinary uses are citron and kaffir lime.

 Thank SoCal2warm, I will give citron leaves a try,  but the problem is it has first to satisfy the cold hardiness in my area. Kaffir lime leaves were also in use to subsitute for lemon leaves in culinary. I thought I already checked kaffir lime out, and it was out of my list for it is less cold hardy than kumquat.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 06:18:20 PM »
I am currently aiming for yuzu because I guess its leaves would taste and smell similar to lemon leaves.
It doesn't smell like lemon, but smells as good as lemon, just in its own unique way.
I like to compare it to a mix of fragrant sour orange, lemon, Satsuma mandarin, and maybe even a tiny hint of grapefruit all mixed together, but it's also uniquely deep and spicy in its own unique way.

  Thank you very much for your description of yuzu leaves' taste. I will buy normal yuzu seedlings from ebay to taste the leaves to see if I can use them to replace lemon leaves.

  I tried to taste the nagami kumquat leaves long ago, and they did not taste like citrus to me, just blank taste like oak leaves to me
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 06:21:26 PM by lavender87 »

Laaz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 822
    • Charleston, SC 9a
    • View Profile
Re: yuzu hybrid
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2019, 06:23:55 PM »
None of the hardy citrus have leaves you are going to want to eat or taste...

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers