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Author Topic: Flying Dragon from Seeds  (Read 1225 times)

franklazar26

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Flying Dragon from Seeds
« on: October 16, 2019, 03:54:10 PM »
So I remember seeing somewhere on this forum that FD only grow 50% true to seed. Being self fertile oranges and not having any other contaminants, is that still true? Will the other 50% still be useful as rootstock or have FD hardiness features? Also how can one tell which seedlings are true and which are not?

Also, I was wondering since flying dragons are deciduous, do they need the cold temps and to molt their leaves in order to flower/fruit the following year? Or will they still flower if I force it to stay evergreen? (Keep warm temps and light throughout winter).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 03:57:25 PM by franklazar26 »

Florian

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 08:43:41 AM »
Mine do vary quite a bit. All are contorted to some degree or another but some grow slower and others quicker. None are standard Poncirus if that is what you mean by true to seed.

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 08:52:42 AM »
I have found that FD will come to about 50% of seed that have all the contorted aspects of true FD. I still use the other stock that does not show the FD contorted aspects. I find that they still are good rootstock and bear different degrees of ability to dwarf.  Even if they do not, I find them to be good rootstock. They are decidous and have the atributes of all poncirus.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 08:55:08 AM by Bomand »

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 09:40:33 AM »
I have found that FD will come to about 50% of seed that have all the contorted aspects of true FD. I still use the other stock that does not show the FD contorted aspects. I find that they still are good rootstock and bear different degrees of ability to dwarf.  Even if they do not, I find them to be good rootstock. They are decidous and have the atributes of all poncirus.

Yes, that is what I meant of true to seed. They all have some degree just some more contorting than others? I just am hoping not to have some plain random straight poncirus haha. About how long after sowing do you see the contentment? As you said though they are still all useful as rootstocks! I would just like to attempt my first bonsai on an FD and use the others as rootstocks for my container purposes and other misc housegifts for family and friends. I want to find the most true FD as such a contorted bonsai in my opinion would be beautiful.

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 09:49:24 AM »
For a FD bonsai I agree that FD makes a good one. There is a FD called Tiny Dragon the IMHO is even more interesting than standard FD. Google Tiny Dragon and ye shall find the particulars. Use all your FD seedlings. The really contorted ones will show even when they are small....want to be sure let them get about 6 inches tall....easily recognized.

Millet

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 10:30:07 AM »
Flying Dragon (FD) as a cultivar always has zig zag stems and strongly curved thorns.  It is an easy way of selecting predominantly true clonal seedlings. Seedlings with straight thorns are not FD.

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 11:52:00 AM »
Okay, awesome. Thank you everyone for the help!

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 11:53:39 AM »
For a FD bonsai I agree that FD makes a good one. There is a FD called Tiny Dragon the IMHO is even more interesting than standard FD. Google Tiny Dragon and ye shall find the particulars. Use all your FD seedlings. The really contorted ones will show even when they are small....want to be sure let them get about 6 inches tall....easily recognized.

Oh awesome, I'll have to look some of them up! So tiny dragon is a type of FD or is it an art formed from the FD?

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 06:20:32 PM »
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 06:23:02 PM by Bomand »

usirius

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2019, 08:10:36 AM »
The >> 'Tiny Dragon' Dwarf Contorted Hardy Orange << in the link you mentioned is a dwarf variety of the "common" FD.

By the way, the botanical name of a 'common' FD is very seldom noted...botanically it is called Poncirus trifoliata var. monstrosa.

Question: Does anybody here in the forum has the dwarf variety 'Tiny Dragon' in his collection?
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2019, 10:01:01 AM »
The >> 'Tiny Dragon' Dwarf Contorted Hardy Orange << in the link you mentioned is a dwarf variety of the "common" FD.

By the way, the botanical name of a 'common' FD is very seldom noted...botanically it is called Poncirus trifoliata var. monstrosa.

Question: Does anybody here in the forum has the dwarf variety 'Tiny Dragon' in his collection?

Oh wow, they look very contorted! I thought that FD were already a naturally dwarf species? So the tiny dragon is just another species of FD? Also, how are these propagated? They seem to be rather rare and only a few sellers have them online. Not a whole lot of info anywhere I look for them.

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2019, 10:30:19 AM »
They are rare and not a lot of citrus growers are real interested in them. They are extremly slow growing and super dwarf. We have poncirus and FD that are slow growing and dwarf. Hard to come by and I have not used it as rootstock because of the above reasons. I think it would make an interesting bonsai and just an all around interesting plant. FD suits all these requirements for those that opt to use it for rootstock.

Florian

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2019, 12:35:24 PM »
Another super dwarf would be the match and rosette type seedlings. I found two rosette type seedlings among my FD seedlings last year.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjshs1925/63/1/63_1_23/_pdf

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2019, 12:49:31 PM »
I have found some from time to time. I plant about 300 FD seed each year. Of those germinations I usually pick about 50 of the healthy true FD to use. I find that the very rare rosette types appear to be mal formed. Slow to grow and poor specimens. They might make a good bonsai but since I have not an interest in bonsai, I put them in the discard pile.

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2019, 01:49:24 PM »
I have found some from time to time. I plant about 300 FD seed each year. Of those germinations I usually pick about 50 of the healthy true FD to use. I find that the very rare rosette types appear to be mal formed. Slow to grow and poor specimens. They might make a good bonsai but since I have not an interest in bonsai, I put them in the discard pile.

Well, let me know if you happen to ever get another! I'd be interested in purchasing it from you! So getting one is mostly from luck then, just the odds of planting?

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2019, 02:58:32 PM »
Yes. They are not common. You will find that when you plant poncirus, FD or the hybrids you get a few variations. Some of them carry their weirdness and some do not. Crapshoot more or less.

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2019, 03:45:13 PM »
Wow that's awesome! I'll have to see all that grow and select the most contorted for a bonsai. Do they eventually fruit as a regular FD would?

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2019, 04:38:01 PM »
Yes. If you pick a good contorted FD, grow it to maturity it will bear fruit. It would really strange if it did not. They require no pollinator.

franklazar26

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2019, 05:42:03 PM »
Well thank you for the information! Your knowledge is very much appreciated on all my questions Bomand! I am looking forward to the years of creating a bonsai!

Bomand

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Re: Flying Dragon from Seeds
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2019, 06:28:22 PM »
Cool. Good luck with your quest.

 

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