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Author Topic: Japan acid citruses  (Read 1103 times)

Radoslav

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Japan acid citruses
« on: June 02, 2019, 01:59:17 AM »
I see a lot of discussion about culinary use of acid citruses in this forum. So, in Japan they eat a lot of sea food, so usage of acid citruses is popular.
So here is a list of japan acid citruses (or citruses used green unripe to use their acidity).

Citrus junos Yuzu

The most expensive is 木頭系(きとう)Kitō-kei (kitō), Yuzu kito, it has biggest fruit of standard yuzus.

Another famous selection is 早生種の「山根系」Yamane-kei  やまねゆず(はやしげる)Yamane yuzu (haya Shigeru)
The Yamane kei was selected in Mr. Yamane 's garden in Anan City. 
Seedless yuzu is called 種なしの (多田錦(ただにしき)) Tada nishiki yuzu

Citrus sphaerocarpa Hort.ex Tanaka  Kabosu  カボス

Important cultivars are:
〔通常品種〕「カボス大分1号」   Kabosu Ōita No.1

〔貯蔵品種〕「豊のミドリ」   Yutaka no Midori


Seedless cultivars:
〔種の少ない品種〕「香美の川」  Kami no kawa

「祖母の香」   Sobonokaori


Citrus acidoglobosa  Matsuda sudachi    マツダスダチ

Citrus sudachi  Sudachi   すだち

Important cultivars are:
徳島1号  Tokushima No. 1
徳島3X1号  Tokushima 3 X 1 / seedless/ ニューすだち
本田系  Honda-kei sudachi

Mushi nukaku sudachi   / seedless, thornless/
Yushi nukaku sudachi  /seedless/

Genko ゲンコウ(元寇)


Citrus inflata Bushukan 仏手柑(ぶしゅかん)


Citrus oto Oto オートー


Citrus takuma sudachi ナオシチ Takuma-sudachi  直七(田熊スダチ) naoshichi


ハナユ Citrus hanaju


Citrus Hebesu  ヘベス 別名 サンズ


Citrus depressa Shiikuwasha


Citrus keraji Kabuchi



Citrus nagato yuzukichi Yuzukichi ゆずきち


« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 04:56:30 AM by Radoslav »

Oolie

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2019, 05:10:32 AM »
Thank you very much for posting.
What I found very interesting when visiting is the popularity of acid citrus and seafood, and yet ceviche is unknown.

But the seafood is definitely unique, by studying the fishing technique, you get to taste fish so different from elsewhere.

I can't get enough, so I am very grateful for your continued posting.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2019, 11:53:55 AM »
Just to point out, many of these Japanese citruses are complex hybrids (but not intentional hybrids) between Kunenbo (a type of tangor-like fruit, basically almost mandarin with some pomelo in its ancestry, probably came from China), Kishu (very small but great quality mandarin, also probably came from China), Tachibana (a mandarin sub-species, only citrus native to the Japanese islands, not that good eating equality), and to a lesser extent Yuzu (also came from China, the Japanese named it after the Chinese word for pomelo, since it was sour).

Shikuwasa may have come from Taiwan or the Ryukyu islands, and appears to share close common ancestry with Tachibana but not directly descended from it. Shikuwasa also appears to have some distant ancestry from Yuzu.

Keraji originated from Shikuwasa that apparently got backcrossed three times over the years with Kunenbo. It's also very hardy, down to 8b, probably could survive 8a in certain conditions. Supposedly great flavor and easy to peel, but very small and seedy.

Kabosu is apparently a cross between Yuzu and Kunenbo.

I'd like to point out that many of these unique citruses are very regional and traditional, and their use in modern Japan had mostly died out, especially due to large-scale commodity imports of citrus from the United States, since the high cost of living makes commodity agriculture prohibitively expensive in Japan. Native-grown Japanese citrus is considered a more expensive delicacy in typical Japanese supermarkets. Probably much of the Japanese public has no idea what these citrus even are.
Yuzu though has seen a popular resurgence in Japan, with Yuzu extract being sold in markets, and Yuzu flavored alcohol commonly being available in establishments. Satsuma has been the most popular mandarin in Japan for a couple hundred years, the word mikan has almost become synonymous with the Satsuma variety in modern Japan, and most people will buy them in the supermarkets when in season. Sudachi and Kabosu are basically known as the two less common "forms" of Yuzu by the ordinary public in Japan, they are not as often seen but can usually be found for sale in the large fish markets.

Yuzu has its own unique flavor and fragrance. If you've never tasted it before, it really is unique from other citrus types. It's almost like a very fragrant - almost floral - sour orange (marmalade orange), but with a pungently deep spiciness, but also like lemon as well, mixed with perhaps some Satsuma mandarin and regular mandarin, and for the most discerning, perhaps the tiniest sweet top note of artificial grapefruit and guava.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 12:13:21 PM by SoCal2warm »

Ilya11

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 04:04:51 AM »
Socal2warm,
I was for three days hiking in Schwarzwald mountains and you profited an  absence of my surveillance to produce so many fake statements >:(
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 04:27:29 AM by Ilya11 »
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Laaz

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 06:59:53 AM »

Laaz

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 07:05:15 AM »
Ilya I've learned to just ignore him... Although it is good entertainment aka "Sanguinello"...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 07:48:33 AM by Laaz »

Pancrazio

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2019, 04:06:54 PM »
Thank you Radoslav for your reports, comprehensive report on japan citrus are hard to come by because of language barrier.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade the following scions: Mango Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Citrus shiranui/US Seedless Surprise. Contact me in PM if interested.

Oolie

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 12:01:23 AM »
I am now searching for shikuwasa, I was not able to find it listed anywhere on the CCPP site.

Anyone have it?

jim VH

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2019, 01:22:12 PM »
My nephew brought me back a Yuzu from Japan which might be a Kito Yuzu.  It was very large-though not as large as the one in the above picture- as well as much juicier with far fewer seeds than the one  I got from One Green World.  It also has the very aromatic and delicious (to my taste buds) peel.

Only one of the half dozen seeds I actually planted germinated.  It's in the ground now, along with a graft of it on a FD rootstock.  Time will tell if the size, juiciness and relative seedlessness are inherited.  Also if it's as cold hardy as my One Green World Yuzu, which survived 8F (-13.3C) on a FD rootstock relatively undamaged. 

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2019, 11:17:03 AM »
Radoslav, do you own all these varieties of sour Japanese citrus? Could you please drop a word about taste?  :-*

kolanp

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 07:05:53 AM »
What are the sweet taste varieties?

lebmung

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 10:16:15 AM »
You should make a change there is a mistake in your list.
Keraji and Kabuchi are two different cultivars of mandarin, not the same.

Millet

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 10:48:59 AM »
Someone with the capabilities should try irradiating the Yuzu to see if they could get a seedless fruit, or at least a less seedy fruit.  There has already been several seedless citrus cultivars through irradiation.

lebmung

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 02:16:10 PM »
Someone with the capabilities should try irradiating the Yuzu to see if they could get a seedless fruit, or at least a less seedy fruit.  There has already been several seedless citrus cultivars through irradiation.

Gamma radiation would be the best, like they made ultra dwarf papaya.
There are also chemical mutagens used in breeding, but who risks their lives to do it, mishandling would  get you cancer instantly.

Bomand

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 04:52:05 PM »
What for???? The peel is all that most cooks are interested in. As for me.....I can not use yuzu.....the taste is a foul kerosene tasting oil that one needs to eat poncirus to kill the taste of yuzu..


SoCal2warm

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 05:53:01 PM »
What for???? The peel is all that most cooks are interested in. As for me.....I can not use yuzu.....the taste is a foul kerosene tasting oil that one needs to eat poncirus to kill the taste of yuzu..
I totally disagree. I've tasted fresh yuzu picked right off the tree when it was very ripe, and could even manage to enjoy eating little bites out of the peel. It was pretty tender and less bitter than lemon peel. The inside wasn't bad either, though kind of dry, very sour, and full of seeds. I wouldn't disagree with anyone who says the inside is slightly skunky, but that's not how I would describe it.
It's nothing like poncirus.

I've also tasted yuzu from a local supermarket and it was much less ripe, the peel was much harder and not as tender, the inside resembled a bit more in the direction of a kaffir lime in texture.

Very ripe Yuzu has skin that's fairly loose and easy to peel, almost as easy as Satsuma, though I don't peel it when using it for cooking.

I'd agree though that most ordinary people would find yuzu very inferior to other standard lemons, but it does have a unique fragrance.

Millet

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 09:04:40 PM »
Buying seed off E-Bay is a dangerous gamble that they will ever germinate.

Bomand

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 09:19:24 PM »
I agree. Ebay is advertising a seedless yuzu.....I would not think about buying it. Ebay sellers are money grubbers not citrus people.

Ilya11

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2019, 03:35:16 AM »
Seedless Yuzu has approximately 1 seed per fruit.
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Radoslav

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 11:53:50 AM »
You should make a change there is a mistake in your list.
Keraji and Kabuchi are two different cultivars of mandarin, not the same.

No






オートー(C. oto hort. ex Tanaka), カーブチー(Citrus keraji var. kabuchii hort. ex Tanaka, タロガヨ(C. tarogayo Hort. ex Tanaka), ウンジュ(C. tarogayo var. uniu Hort. ex  Tanaka)

« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:58:57 AM by Radoslav »

Ilya11

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 12:54:47 PM »
Radoslav,

In recent publication on citrus hybrid origin based  on DNA markers it was concluded that:

"Thus, kabuchi was inferred to be an offspring of kunenbo-A as seed parent and an unidentified variety, and
keraji was inferred to be an offspring of kabuchi and kunenbo-A, but their combination was indeterminate.
This inferred parentage suggests that keraji is a backcrossed offspring of kunenbo-A."


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166969


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                       Ilya

Radoslav

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 02:03:53 PM »
Radoslav,

In recent publication on citrus hybrid origin based  on DNA markers it was concluded that:

"Thus, kabuchi was inferred to be an offspring of kunenbo-A as seed parent and an unidentified variety, and
keraji was inferred to be an offspring of kabuchi and kunenbo-A, but their combination was indeterminate.
This inferred parentage suggests that keraji is a backcrossed offspring of kunenbo-A."


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166969

As I stated before, role of DNA analysis is overestimated, if you give  DNA sample to 10 laboratories, you will get 10 different results. I remember lecture of one czech scientist, who is considered to be one of the fathers of forensic usage of DNA. (He worked on Srebrenica mass grave for example). And he said, that he is very upset with the fact, that US judges use DNA analysis as 100% evidence. Those citrus parentage games are very popular in Japan. Here is another one from 2014 : Keraji, Kabuchii, and Oto are closely related to Kunenbo based on the results of isozyme and DNA analyses. The type of cpDNA of Keraji, Kabuchii, Tarogayo, and Oto is the same as that of Kunenbo. This suggests that they arose from Kunenbo as a female ancestor because cpDNA is inherited maternally.

Another thing is, that plants, no matter if they are crossed, or backcrossed, or mutations, botanically they still can be considered as a same species.  For example citrus junos or citrus keraji, or citrus sudachi etc. It means that you can find some differences on DNA level, but botanically those diferences are not important.
In fact DNA analysis say nothing in this case,  DNA markers are not the key elements for botanical categorization, otherwise we can say, that there is no citrus keraji, no citrus oto, no citrus tarogayo, just citrus nobilis, because of kunenbo genes in each plant.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 02:54:00 PM by Radoslav »

Ilya11

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 05:56:31 PM »
Interestingly, you citation on cpDNA parentage is exactly what is written in DNA marker paper. No contradiction at all.
Old morphological classification of Japanese varieties was made by T.Tanaka who already  pointed on the difference between Keraji and Kabuchi:

"The typical Keraji was found in two places in Okinawa, the first from Izumi,
Motobu-chO, and the other from Nago. Since they are handled as Kabuchii, it seems
probable that Okinawa peple are not familia rwith the mainland Keraji, neglecting
its presence in Okinawa. True Keraji should be segregated out from Kabuchii as
they are quite distinct
"


Further Revision of Ryukyu Citrus : Revisio Aurantiacearum XIV
Tyozaburo TANAKA Bull.Univ.Osaka Pref. Ser.B. Vol.11 1961
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lebmung

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Re: Japan acid citruses
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2019, 08:48:32 AM »
This is my Shiikuwasha



 

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