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Author Topic: Ichang lemon Sebastien  (Read 353 times)

Pancrazio

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Ichang lemon Sebastien
« on: June 03, 2019, 04:14:34 PM »
I'm about to get this one. In what is different from standard ichang lemons? I have hard that it is almost thornless. What about the taste of fruits? are they usable as lemon substitute? How long they hang on the tree after the winter?

O a unrelated note, i'm also gettin the ichang lemon 153. Sometimes i see it referred as the same stuff as crc 1215 and sometimes see them treated as different clones. Are they the same, or are they different?
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Pancrazio

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 03:18:27 PM »
Thank you for reply. I stumbled on that post during the research i made before asking, but the question florian asked remains unaswered. What sets apart "Sebastien" from other ichang lemons? A person i know says it's less spiny but was unable to get the fruit so i don't know if there are other differences. If that's just a name that means "common ichang lemon coming from alias" i probably should have just bought the 153.
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Radoslav

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 01:32:19 AM »
It is possible that 153 and CRC 1215 are identical!
From Eisenhut list:
153 Citrus   Ichang Lemon   Ichang Lemon   (C. ichangensis x C. maxima) / C.R.C. 1215; bedornt - Papeda-Hybride.

So far I see following cultivars in Czech nurseries:

Ichang lemon CRC 1215( shangouyan)
originaly from https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/CRC1215.html
Ichang lemon IVIA
originaly from L'Institut ValenciÓ d'Investigacions AgrÓries (IVIA)
It is Citrus ichangensis Swing. IVIA - 235 or Citrus ichangiensis Swing. IVIA - 358
Ichang lemon wilsonii
from USSR
Ichang lemon 153
Ichang lemon "Sebastien"
Selection from France,

 on czech forum Zdenek Cernoch described only Ichang lemon CRC 1215( shangouyan) as really edible.

His picture of Ichang lemon CRC 1215







« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 01:45:35 AM by Radoslav »

Ilya11

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 02:50:05 AM »
Radoslav,
IVIA235  and  IVIA358 are two clones of Citrus ichangiensis, they are very different from Ichang Lemons.
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                       Ilya

Pancrazio

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 07:41:43 PM »
Radoslav,
the picture of CRC1215 sure is tempting considering that it should be able to withstand less than -10░C. I wonder ho much fruits can take, and also, how long fruit can be stored on tree.
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Ilya11

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 04:06:23 AM »
I have a bad experience with Ichang Lemon, tried to grow  it three times, they resist no more than three years in my climate.
Last time it was  150 cm high Shangyuan grafted on poncirus. The trunk was damaged in winter with -9C nights, next season  with --9.6C killed it.
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                       Ilya

Pancrazio

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 03:45:07 PM »
Did you try it from a specific clone, or was this common with ichangs?
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Ilya11

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 04:02:59 PM »
These were three clones different, the last one- Shangyaun was CRC1215.
But I am well far to North from you.
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Pancrazio

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 05:29:24 PM »
Yes, but that kind of temperature is common in my garden too because i live in a closed valley. This year minimum temperature has been -8░C.
I think i have read somewhere else, in one of your posts, that your hypothesis for such bad behavior of ichang lemon was the lack of a proper dormancy in warmer climate. If that's the case it would be even worse. I thought i could have attempted to solve it by grafting it on poncirus but it doesn't give much hope the fact that yours died anyway.
Fun fact. Few years ago i got a shangyan lemon from switzerland (i think you know the guy who sent me the scions). It's very spiny. I don't know what of those clones it is. However i grafted it on poncirus. Well, i left it in a small pot for years and this year it got the -8 completly unfazed. To think about it, i never gave it any shelter in last years. I kept it on the north side of my house, in few occasions the soil remained frozen for days. The plant is really in a small pot with little fertilizer and little water. I wonder if plants somehow become stronger if hardened with smaller nitrogen doses? This would also help them in avoiding long growing season in autum. I don't know, it's just an idea.
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SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 05:31:53 PM »
I have a bad experience with Ichang Lemon, tried to grow  it three times, they resist no more than three years in my climate.
I've had a similar experience here, in the US Pacific Northwest. My Ichang lemon (in a container) has not been very vigorous and has not seemed very cold hardy. Yuzu has done much better.

Ilya11

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 09:34:34 AM »
Yes, but that kind of temperature is common in my garden too because i live in a closed valley. This year minimum temperature has been -8░C.

I guess the minimal temperatures are only a part of the whole story.
When North-Eastern anticylone stalls here , it is usually for two weeks, with no snow and winds up to 80 km/hour, often day time temperatures are negative. It happens in January -February at 48N, a force of  sun is very different from that of Florence  at 43N.
My gut feeling is that Shangyuan should be OK at your place.

I think i have read somewhere else, in one of your posts, that your hypothesis for such bad behavior of ichang lemon was the lack of a proper dormancy in warmer climate.
It was written about pure Citrus ichangensis, not Ichang Lemon.
 Amazingly its hybrids with 5star citrumelo are much more resistant.

When I had Ichang Lemon ( C.wilsonii from Baches Nursery) in a pot, it gave an abundant harvest of lemons with good smell, but not a lot of juice and   many seeds.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Pancrazio

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2019, 06:42:55 AM »
I see what you mean, i have heard that not dormant citrus become progressively less resistant the more they have to endure a temperature, so the same temperature they can shrug off the first time in december, can kill them if does come back again in january. So duration is definitively an issue.

I heard you talk a lot aboyt the 5 start, can you elaborate a little on this plant? What makes it "special"?
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Ilya11

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Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2019, 10:00:47 AM »
5star citrumelo is completely hardy under my climate, this is its main advantage.
But it can not be considered as fully edible, there are internal fruit oils, not so nasty as those of poncirus, but still they stick to dents :(.
 If you get rid of them by keeping the jus in refrigerator, it can be used for cooking.
This citrumelo is giving a large number of zygotes after cross pollination, I use it as a principal parent for the development of new hardy varieties.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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