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Author Topic: Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question  (Read 273 times)

starch

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Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question
« on: July 14, 2019, 09:52:22 PM »
Yesterday I ate my first E-4/Sugarloaf (which was absolutely amazing, one of the 3 best mangos I have eaten this season). I have read that Sugarloaf is polyembryonic so I wanted to plant the seed. I let the seed husk dry out and opened it today.

First thing to note is that seed was extremely small. About the size of a quarter and very thin. It reminded me of a 'chicken tongue' mango seed (i.e. how a Sweetheart lychee makes aborted small shriveled seeds). This is similar to the experience that Simon has had with E-4 on the mono vs. ploy thread (see here: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12030.msg327034#msg327034 ). And so I would have thought that this was an aborted / non-viable mango seed based on the size .... except .... it already had a taproot with side roots forming and the main stem was already forming out of the seed. So this seed looks viable.

But here is the deal: there is only one embryo. It is clear as day that there are not multiple embryos that you see in a typical polyembryonic seed, which have very obvious divisions in the seed for the different embryos. Nor does there seem to be an amorphous mass of embryos without division. This is just a single (viable) tiny seed with a single tiny embryo.

So here is my question:

Assuming the E-4 is in fact a polyembryonic mango (which seems the case based on a few peoples observations) what are the chances that this small atrophied but viable seed (which clearly has only one embryo) is a clone? Do you think it is likely that this is a sexually produced embryo or is it more likely to be a cloned embryo?

I have already planted it so I am going to grow it out either way. But wanted to see what the consensus might be on this subject.
- Mark

simon_grow

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Re: Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 12:45:54 AM »
Hey Mark,

Without genetic testing, we would only be guessing. I’ve found super tiny seeds about the size of a nickel or quarter and they were viable although I’ve also had some that never sprouted.

Based on the papers I’ve previously posted on other threads regarding Polyembryonic Mangos, the ability to select the clone or zygotic seedling based on vigor is variety specific. Because you only got a single seedling, it will be very difficult to say wether it will be a clone or the zygotic seedling.

E4 was so recently released that there is very little information about this variety, especially in regard to growing out its seeds.

For some Polyembryonic mango varieties like Lemon Zest, you may be able to use phenotypic traits such as wavy leaf margins to potentially “best guess” which seedling is the clone. You may also be able to crush the leaf from the seedling and compare it to the smell of a true E4 leaf. I say these techniques are only for “best guesses” because who knows if the zygotic seedling may have inherited the wavy leaf margins or a particular smell from the maternal or paternal parent.

Please keep us updated on your seedling!

Simon

starch

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Re: Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 10:39:52 AM »
Thanks Simon, I appreciate the explanations! I figured that was going to be the case.
Will do!
- Mark

ammoun

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Re: Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 05:25:45 PM »
I'm also interested in knowing how far the tree can survive when it's started from an underdeveloped seed like the one you describe. Thanks

edzone9

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Re: Mango Mono vs. Poly seed question
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 06:34:00 PM »
Where did you score the E4?

Ed
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