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Author Topic: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?  (Read 359 times)

lavender87

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Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« on: August 09, 2019, 09:13:18 AM »
 I bought my Harvey lemon from Haris Nuersery and just found out that the sour orange rootstock was a rooted cutting or an air laying when I tranfered the tree to a bigger pot.

  Harvey lemon grown from seeds on its own rootsystem was  already hard to survive over the winter in zone 8a. I was very disappointed when the sour orange rootstock is a rooted cutting. I then grafted a few branches of harvey lemon on my trifoliate seedlings to retain the gene just incase. The success rate was 100%, but I douted that the future scionwood overgrown issue might somehow occurs at the later years.

  The winter season in Atlanta was not so bad in the last 30 years, so I hope that Harvey lemon on trifoliate rootstocks will make it through. I am on my own experiment on multiple grafts on a single rootstock and multiple rootstocks on a single scionwood just to see whether or not it'll boosts growth rate as well as mature rate and if success, it'll definitely help to speed up the hybridizing program. I will publicate the method when success.


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« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 08:51:54 PM by Millet »

Millet

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 02:44:05 PM »
Although Sour Orange is not as cold hardy as poncirus, sour orange still generally has good freeze tolerance.   

lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 05:40:30 PM »
Although Sour Orange is not as cold hardy as poncirus, sour orange still generally has good freeze tolerance.

 Thank for the confirmation on sour orange cold hardiness; however, many people claimed that citrus grown from seed is more cold tolerant than rooted cuttings. Isn't it true? Please confirm that for me.

 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:46:00 PM by lavender87 »

Laaz

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 06:47:01 PM »
You're not going to fing any lemon that will survive in Atanta without MAJOR protection.

lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 08:06:23 PM »
You're not going to fing any lemon that will survive in Atanta without MAJOR protection.

  Lol, I did not ask whether or not there exist a lemon variety that could withstand the winter in Atlanta. Aren't yuzu and ichang papeda IVIA lemon varieties? I am starting my own program to create a lemon that could barely survive in zone 8a without protection. Please read the question carefully.

  I don't think Atlanta winter would be worst than the winter in Tibet. I am running my own program silently, not to show it off. I just posted a question to gather more useful information, not to receive something everybody knew.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 07:33:57 AM by lavender87 »

Bomand

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 08:45:52 PM »
I do not believe that citrus hardiness is affected whether cuttings or grown from seed. I have no data to verify that except my own experience.  I have cuttings that are just as cold hardy (and in some cases hardier)  than seed grown trees. Can you show me some data that indicates what you have heard? Thanks.

will2358

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 09:38:01 PM »
You're not going to fing any lemon that will survive in Atanta without MAJOR protection.
I have read that Yuzu, ichang and harvey should survive in 8a.
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Radoslav

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2019, 03:20:57 AM »
If you ask about difference between seedling and grafted plant behaviour, in my experiences seedlings and grafted plants (no matter, if the rootstock is rooted cutting or seedling) behave differently. Especially in harash conditions, the grafted rootstock  is trying to safe itself first and has no problem to give up grafted part.

Laaz

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2019, 06:26:10 AM »
Quote
Isn't yuzu and ichang papeda IVIA lemon varieties

No, as you stated they are "papeda" not "Citrus limon". Not even close.

will2358

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2019, 01:04:01 PM »
Yes, but aren't they still considered a lemon. Didn't they all originate from the natural  or artificial hybridization of the citron.
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SoCal2warm

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2019, 01:16:53 PM »
Yes, but aren't they still considered a lemon. Didn't they all originate from the natural  or artificial hybridization of the citron.
No. Citron is a different species from Ichang papeda.
So although these are oftentimes referred to as "lemons", they are not true lemons.
If they resemble lemon, that is because the fruit of Ichang papeda resembles citron, but there are several aspects different as well.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2019, 01:27:02 PM »
  I don't think Atlanta winter would be worst than the winter in Tibet.
There are different elevations in Tibet. If Yuzu grows in that region, it would only be at the lower elevations. There are several different climate areas in Tibet, I don't think Yuzu would grow in the harsh climate area foreigners typically associate with Tibet.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2019, 01:34:12 PM »
Whether the rootstock was grown from a rooted cutting or grown from seed probably does not make any difference.
The difference would be what variety it is, and whether the scion is grafted onto a different variety for rootstock.

Some nurseries use rooted cuttings and others grow their rootstock from seed. If grown from seed, the weaker seedlings will typically get discarded. Very unlikely to make a difference for the buyer.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 01:41:57 PM »
many people claimed that citrus grown from seed is more cold tolerant than rooted cuttings. Isn't it true? Please confirm that for me.
The only time grown from seed would make a difference is if the seedling happened to get a better mix of genes making it cold hardier than the parent (majority of the time not the case) or if not being a different variety from the roots would make a difference. Being grafted onto a different type of rootstock always creates some small degree of incompatibility, typically resulting in slower growth and smaller size. So the issue there would not really be whether it was grown from seed, but whether it was grafted onto different rootstock or was growing on its own roots.

Millet

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2019, 02:54:35 PM »
I have been growing citrus for 30 years.  In all that time I have never seen any creditable evidence that seedlings are any harder than a rooted cutting (of the same variety).

will2358

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 03:40:58 PM »
Classifications
There are four species of Papeda currently recognised by Kew and Missouri Botanical Garden.[3] These are:

Citrus cavaleriei - the Ichang papeda
Citrus halimii - mountain citron
Citrus latipes - khasi papeda
Citrus hystrix - The kaffir lime or Mauritius papeda
There are many naturally occurring varieties that are now classified as subspecies:

Citrus hystrix var. micrantha - small papeda (Locally known as the biasong and samuyao)
Citrus hystrix var. celebica - Celebes papeda
Citrus hystrix var. macroptera - Melanesian papeda
Citrus x aurantiifolia var. macrophylla - alemow
Citrus x aurantiifolia var. webberi - kalpi
Citrus longispina - winged lime (Unresolved as to whether or not it is a hybrid, variety or species)
A number of hybrids between this subgenus and eucitrus also exist:

Ichandarins
Yuzu (ichang papeda mandarin)[4]
Sudachi (ichang papeda mandarin)[5]
Ichang lemon (ichang papeda pomelo)
Hyuganatsu (yuzu pomelo, or yuzu sport)
Kabosu (ichang papeda bitter orange)
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lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2019, 03:53:53 PM »
I have been growing citrus for 30 years.  In all that time I have never seen any creditable evidence that seedlings are any harder than a rooted cutting (of the same variety).

  Thank you very much, Millet.

lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2019, 03:57:59 PM »
 
   Thank will2358, it's very helpful.


 

lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2019, 05:46:54 PM »
Whether the rootstock was grown from a rooted cutting or grown from seed probably does not make any difference.
The difference would be what variety it is, and whether the scion is grafted onto a different variety for rootstock.

Some nurseries use rooted cuttings and others grow their rootstock from seed. If grown from seed, the weaker seedlings will typically get discarded. Very unlikely to make a difference for the buyer.

 Thank Socal for your confirmation, but on one of your old post stated that citrus rooted cutting is not as cold tolerant as one grown from seeds.


SoCal2warm

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2019, 09:10:41 PM »
Thank Socal for your confirmation, but on one of your old post stated that citrus rooted cutting is not as cold tolerant as one grown from seeds.
I think you must have been misunderstanding what I stated.
I don't recall ever posting that.

lavender87

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Re: Will nurseries use rooted cuttings as rootstocks?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2019, 11:52:32 PM »
I think you must have been misunderstanding what I stated.
I don't recall ever posting that.

 Oh, I am sorry. I might have somehow misunderstood your point. Anyway, I am now informed that there is no difference in cold hardiness between citrus grown from seeds and from rooted cuttings. Thank you very much.

 

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