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Author Topic: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda  (Read 345 times)

Huyen Linh Ho

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The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« on: September 07, 2019, 02:17:14 PM »
  Does anyone know what temperature is best for ichang papeda growth. Does it prefer high humid?

  One of my friend grafted a branch of Ichang Papeda 1 month ago and the scionwood now is still green and healthy to the look; however, no new shoot yet. I also came to his garden to take pictures of it. He said if the graft was failed, the scionwood should had been dried or turned yellow after 1 to 2 weeks. I just wonder what would be the best temperature and humidity level for ichang papeda growth.










« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 02:21:20 PM by Huyen Linh Ho »

SoCal2warm

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 04:38:43 PM »
I grew some cuttings inside a grow enclosure, it helps hold in humidity; under constant artificial light, they grew very well.

Ichang papeda does have more drought tolerance than other citrus but in its native climate it still receives rain and is fairly humid during the summer.

For a small seedling growing outside, it's better to keep it consistently watered and put it in partial shade. (It still needs a fair amount of sun, but cooler morning sun is better) It depends of course on what your climate is like, but it should do just fine where you are, except for the winter.
You might even wish to cover it with a clear plastic bag (maybe with a few air holes in it) to help hold humidity. I don't think it needs that but it might help if you're in a dry hot area.

I don't think there's anything in particular about Ichang papeda that would make it more difficult to grow than other citrus.
It does tend to be a slower growing species, but I've found them to have strong dependable growth, they are not frail.

Make sure you're also giving the soil a chance to dry out just a little between waterings. You don't want the soil constantly wet all the time, that could contribute to root rot. But try to keep the soil from drying out too much for too long, if that makes sense.

I predict your seedling will survive and grow, as long as it's given a little water every 2 or 3 days, but because of its small size right now, it may be a while before it puts on much growth.
Edit: I did not see that it was grafted before. Now I'm thinking there's a possibility the upper part may be able to survive, but it's not going to do well any time soon.

Even cold hardy citrus like this does not handle sudden temperature changes from growing inside to being taken outside in the winter, so if you decide to try to grow it inside during the winter, make sure it does not go outside until temperatures have warmed up.

If it helps at all, my grow enclosure stays at about 78 F, and sometimes the temperature in there rises to 86 on hot days. With adequate humidity, they seem to like that.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 05:30:00 PM by SoCal2warm »

Laaz

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 04:51:10 PM »
That budstick you used wasn't the best for cleft grafting. Looks like ever point is forked. There are probably still a few "hidden" buds, but it may take quite a while for them to force. When cleft grafting you want to use wood from newer growth that has nice fat visible buds, not something that has already branched... That nonsense above is just that, nonsense...

kumin

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2019, 05:03:20 PM »
I agree with Laaz regarding the undesirability of using scionwood having already pushed buds in the past.

It looks like the scion is alive at this point. My concern would be the long length of the scion in relation to the short rootstock. Eventually, the scion may grow, but the response and "push" might be sooner and more dramatic on a shorter scion with 2 buds or so. I don't know if there is any point in shortening it now.

As an aside, a cardinal rule in pruning is to not leave stubs, but rather to cut as close to the main branch as possible, but not to the point where the branch being pruned diameter begins to become larger. (Do not remove the collar where a branch enlarges at point of attachment to main branch or trunk).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 05:41:37 PM by kumin »

Bomand

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 05:21:42 PM »
Agree also. That scion will not make it. If it does it will be hell to force it. The "hot plump" buds are gone. If there are more buds it will take a long time for them to break out.

Huyen Linh Ho

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 06:42:34 PM »
  My friend said that the seller sold him the bad scionwood on purpose because the seller was reluctant to share the cultivar. He knew that the scionwood was not a good one, but he had no choice. The seller was an experienced citrus grafter but sent out bad scionwood. My friend is an expert in grafting as well.

  He did not want to shorten the scionwood because it was an old scionwood that might have been stored for a while before shipped out to him. He kept as many buds as possible just in case. As long as it is alive, he will multiply it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 09:50:05 PM by Huyen Linh Ho »

lavender87

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 10:14:51 PM »
Agree also. That scion will not make it. If it does it will be hell to force it. The "hot plump" buds are gone. If there are more buds it will take a long time for them to break out.

 If the above grafted scionwood has been 1 month old then it has pretty high chance of success. I see alot of recent pruned scars on the scionwood, but I guess most of those were thorn scars since ichang papeda has pretty big thorns, unless it is a rare variant of it; however, I agreed that this scionwood seems to be exhausted due to its energy loss on the previous pruned young shoots.

  I also see signs of scab disease on the above scionwood; however, it seems like your friend has treated it with some type of fungicide which left white stains on the stem. I guess it was stunted due to the effect of fungicide. There might not be a source mentions about the stunting side effect of some typical fungicide when its residue runs down to the soil; however, I've experienced it for myself on my lawn and some trees.

  There were at least 2 small buds on it that seemed to slightly bud out. I guess it will bud out in about another week or so. He should give it a little bit of citrus fertilizer, it will speed up the process. I crushed a bar of citrus fertilizer and spinkled on soil around my stunted citrangequat seedling. Now it is more than 1ft tall and still continues to grow like crazy.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 07:49:56 AM by lavender87 »

lavender87

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 10:44:09 PM »
Huyen, it is understandable because the ichang papeda is pretty rare in the US. It was pretty kind of him to reluctantly send your friend a piece of scionwood.

Huyen Linh Ho

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 11:34:31 PM »
I grew some cuttings inside a grow enclosure, it helps hold in humidity; under constant artificial light, they grew very well.

Ichang papeda does have more drought tolerance than other citrus but in its native climate it still receives rain and is fairly humid during the summer.

For a small seedling growing outside, it's better to keep it consistently watered and put it in partial shade. (It still needs a fair amount of sun, but cooler morning sun is better) It depends of course on what your climate is like, but it should do just fine where you are, except for the winter.
You might even wish to cover it with a clear plastic bag (maybe with a few air holes in it) to help hold humidity. I don't think it needs that but it might help if you're in a dry hot area.

I don't think there's anything in particular about Ichang papeda that would make it more difficult to grow than other citrus.
It does tend to be a slower growing species, but I've found them to have strong dependable growth, they are not frail.

Make sure you're also giving the soil a chance to dry out just a little between waterings. You don't want the soil constantly wet all the time, that could contribute to root rot. But try to keep the soil from drying out too much for too long, if that makes sense.

I predict your seedling will survive and grow, as long as it's given a little water every 2 or 3 days, but because of its small size right now, it may be a while before it puts on much growth.
Edit: I did not see that it was grafted before. Now I'm thinking there's a possibility the upper part may be able to survive, but it's not going to do well any time soon.

Even cold hardy citrus like this does not handle sudden temperature changes from growing inside to being taken outside in the winter, so if you decide to try to grow it inside during the winter, make sure it does not go outside until temperatures have warmed up.

If it helps at all, my grow enclosure stays at about 78 F, and sometimes the temperature in there rises to 86 on hot days. With adequate humidity, they seem to like that.

 Thanks Socal2warm. This is not my plant. I took pictures from my friend's garden. I will show your comment to my friend. He will be very thankful.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 11:39:39 PM by Huyen Linh Ho »

kumin

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2019, 02:23:36 AM »
The healthy, deep green foliage on the rootstock is a good sign. If both the scion and the rootstock can keep the present green color there is hope the graft may succeed.

lavender87

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 07:56:32 AM »
I've just thought of a possibility that due to the grafting took place in the late summer, it might easily be stunted by the fall weather. Most of my trees are slightly stunted now, including the vigorous cultivar like jujube. Grafting should take place in the mid spring to the early summer. Yes, you can graft in the fall, but the success rate will be lower due to slower growth of both rootstocks and scionwood.

Bomand

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2019, 08:49:42 AM »
While it is true that fall growth is slower, I find that fall chip budding, cleft grafting and budding can be done. I graft with all three methods in the late summer and fall. I force only if there is enough time to let new growth harden off before the first frost. That date $or me is the first week of December. I am in zone 9. The citrus that does not have time to harden off I let them set till Spring (end of Feb) to force them. Stuff that is forced then will catch up with Spring grafted and lots of the time will surpass the Spring grafted stuff.  I find that some great budwood can be had in the Summer and fall. Temperature is a major factor. I place all Summer grafted rootstock in the shade and keep temps lower.

Ilya11

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2019, 09:41:57 AM »
Ichang papeda does not have any special humidity requirements.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lavender87

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2019, 11:23:16 PM »
 Huyen, I've just noticed the green algae on the soil and the dark green pigment of the trifoliate leaves on the rootstock. It means that this grafted plant has been under the heavy shade for too long. If the scionwood has been 1 month old, it is safe to gradually introduce it to more direct sunlight.

  The delay on leafing out might be due to the lack of vigor of the rootstock or the scionwood. your friend was very creative to keep some leaves on the rootstock to help nurished it. If we use a big, matured rootstock then we might not need to keep some lower leaves on it, but if it was a young, slender rootstock then it is wise to keep some lower leaves on the rootstock to help it a little bit.

  Tell your friend to wait anoher week, I think it might leaf out very soon.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 09:41:47 AM by lavender87 »

lavender87

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2019, 09:40:58 AM »
The healthy, deep green foliage on the rootstock is a good sign. If both the scion and the rootstock can keep the present green color there is hope the graft may succeed.

  In many cases, if the graft fails due to incompatibility then the scionwood would turn yellow in as quick as about 2 weeks or less, starting from the top and gradually yellowing down to the graft node. If the graft fails due to inexperienced grafting technique, the scionwood will turn yellow very quickly in as soon as 3 days. In some rare cases, graft incompatibility occurs very lately after 1 or 2 years, or even after a decade with unknow reason.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 09:57:06 AM by lavender87 »

lebmung

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2019, 04:40:53 PM »
Why did you graft it? Better to just root it, itself is a successful root stock.

Huyen Linh Ho

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2019, 10:52:44 PM »
Here is an update on the same ichang papeda grafted seedling. It is now exactly 5 weeks old. The owner cut off the upper part of the scionwood to concentrate energy on the new shoot. There was no new bud at all at 4 weeks old.





« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 08:56:02 AM by Huyen Linh Ho »

kumin

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 04:41:06 AM »
Congratulations, it looks like the graft will be successful.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 04:59:26 AM by kumin »

Huyen Linh Ho

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Re: The best growing temperature and humidity for Ichang Papeda
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 08:36:30 PM »
Congratulations, it looks like the graft will be successful.

 Thanks kumin.

 Here is an update. (3 days later)





 

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