Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?  (Read 297 times)

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« on: September 11, 2019, 11:04:50 PM »
I was driving along in NW Louisiana a few months ago and noticed a tree in a mans yard that was covered with citrus. I stopped and the guy had some 6 year old trees in pots so I bought 2 of them. He also gave me some fruit which tasted very good by the way. He told me the tree was an orangequat. However I have a lot of doubts that this is correct. Everything seems to point toward it being a Thomasville citrangequat. It has some leaves that are trifoliate and some that are not. The fruit has a slight neck on it and taste very good if ripe. I planted all the seed and got 10 or 15 seedlings from them. I also got a small graft from one of the twigs he cut off with the fruit. Let me know what you think about the tree.

This is the tree that was growing in his yard     



These are the leaves on the 6 year old trees ( from seed) that I bought.


These are some of the seedling I sprouted


Here is the tiny graft I got. I am not sure it will make it but I have my fingers crossed.


This is another seedling I sprouted from the seed out of the fruit he gave me.


LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 11:16:58 PM »
By the way this tree went through two 8 degree F nights in January of 2018 and was not hurt. It is a zone 8a where the tree is growing. 

Ilya11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 03:31:27 AM »
Looks like Thomasville.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 09:07:55 AM »
I think so too. I sure hope it is. I have read that they usually come back true from seed. Is that a true statement.

Bomand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
    • LouisianaCFDFMY
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 09:37:02 AM »
It has been my experience that Thomasville does not come true from seed. There are too many factors in the parentage. You get a mixture of different leaves, fruit and cold hardiness from seed. You might get close but an exact clone of Thomasville is hard to come by.

Ilya11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 10:13:05 AM »
It has been my experience that Thomasville does not come true from seed. There are too many factors in the parentage. You get a mixture of different leaves, fruit and cold hardiness from seed. You might get close but an exact clone of Thomasville is hard to come by.
My experience is very different.  I germinated several hundreds  Thomasville seeds, not a single one gave a plant with different appearance/hardiness, although some, as many kumquats have root problems.
Even these seedlings, when grafted on hardy rootstock are non distinguishable from Thomasville parent.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 11:00:34 AM »
 Retightening the graft union with rubber band only slows down the healing process and weaken the graft uinon. The cross-section surfaces of the scionwood and rootstock will not adhere to each other if we tighten tightly the graft union with strings. We should let it expand naturally, so the callus can gradually fill up the gap and adheres both surfaces. The callus is also served as a type of glue to adhere surfaces.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:02:40 AM by lavender87 »

Bomand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
    • LouisianaCFDFMY
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
For many years I wound rubber bands and used wax. Stretched the bands very tightly. Now for budding I use buddy tape. Single piece wrapped just tight enough to hold bud in contact. Cleft grafting....parafilm with moderate pressure. Heavy pressure is not necessary and is detrimental in many cases. I never retighten....start over if a problem exist.

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 11:46:02 AM »
Thanks for the advice on using rubber bands. I had just saw some people doing this on youtube so I tried their method. I thought I would need something more rigid that the parafilm. I really had no idea what I was doing. I had tried 4 citrumelos grafted to trifoliate with this method and they all took.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 12:11:33 PM »
  LBurford, parafilm is the best for small grafting, and it is not hard to have a successful graft. Parafilm is not rigid, but it is slightly stretchable. The pros would be its ability to seal the graft tightly with little effort, and the cons would be its undurability and very high cost.

  If you are grafting on big scionwood or rootstocks, parafilm would be a waste. For bark graft on medium to large branches plastic wrap is preferred; however, it is not recommended to overtighten the graft union. Those un-professional grafters on youtube tried to overtighten the graft uinons on their trees with hope that it would prevent graft unions from being swollen. We could avoid the swollen graft union using our skills and experiences, and it also depends on several factors; however, it is not neccesary because a swollen graft union will finally disappear in a few years unless the graft is failed gradually.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:22:59 PM by lavender87 »

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2019, 08:45:34 PM »
  LBurford, parafilm is the best for small grafting, and it is not hard to have a successful graft. Parafilm is not rigid, but it is slightly stretchable. The pros would be its ability to seal the graft tightly with little effort, and the cons would be its undurability and very high cost.

  If you are grafting on big scionwood or rootstocks, parafilm would be a waste. For bark graft on medium to large branches plastic wrap is preferred; however, it is not recommended to overtighten the graft union. Those un-professional grafters on youtube tried to overtighten the graft uinons on their trees with hope that it would prevent graft unions from being swollen. We could avoid the swollen graft union using our skills and experiences, and it also depends on several factors; however, it is not neccesary because a swollen graft union will finally disappear in a few years unless the graft is failed gradually.

Do you know of a video you can recommend. I will be doing grafts on a very small scale but I want to do them correctly.

Bomand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
    • LouisianaCFDFMY
    • View Profile

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 12:00:16 AM »
Retightening the graft union with rubber band only slows down the healing process and weaken the graft uinon. The cross-section surfaces of the scionwood and rootstock will not adhere to each other if we tighten tightly the graft union with strings. We should let it expand naturally, so the callus can gradually fill up the gap and adheres both surfaces. The callus is also served as a type of glue to adhere surfaces.

Would it help to remove the rubber band at this point? Do you remove the parafilm at any point or just let growth, the sun and age take care of it?


Bomand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
    • LouisianaCFDFMY
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 06:12:51 AM »
If the graft is two weeks old I would let it alone. The sun causes rubber bands to deteriorate rather quickly. It will fall off before it does any damage. I let nature take care of parafilm also. If new growth is being interfered with I remove it....otherwise natural deterioration occurs

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2019, 08:52:10 AM »
LBurford, you should not disturb the graft node at all after it was done until normally about 6 weeks later. If you use some type of durable string or durable band, then you need to remove it after about 6 weeks; however, with parafilm you don't need to because it will expand itself as the graft union expands and at some point it will either deteriorate by the sunlight or will be broken by the over expansion of growth in diameter.

 Rubber band might take longer to deteriorate but will finally break down itself under direct sunlight. It was just a reference for future grafting. We don't need to over tighten the graft uinon. If your graft was about 6 weeks old, you can carefully remove it (optional),  but if it was less than that, you should leave it alone. I could not tell what type of grafting tape you used under the rubberband, if it was PVC tape then you need to remove it after 6 weeks because PVC grafting tape will last for years and hinder diameter growth.

 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 08:54:50 AM by lavender87 »

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 11:39:33 PM »
LBurford, you should not disturb the graft node at all after it was done until normally about 6 weeks later. If you use some type of durable string or durable band, then you need to remove it after about 6 weeks; however, with parafilm you don't need to because it will expand itself as the graft union expands and at some point it will either deteriorate by the sunlight or will be broken by the over expansion of growth in diameter.

 Rubber band might take longer to deteriorate but will finally break down itself under direct sunlight. It was just a reference for future grafting. We don't need to over tighten the graft uinon. If your graft was about 6 weeks old, you can carefully remove it (optional),  but if it was less than that, you should leave it alone. I could not tell what type of grafting tape you used under the rubberband, if it was PVC tape then you need to remove it after 6 weeks because PVC grafting tape will last for years and hinder diameter growth.

 
I am almost sure its parafilm I bought. I got it off amazon a couple of years ago. It is almost clear, waxy and will stretch. Once it's wrapped tightly is sticks together and is almost impossible to unwrap off the graft after it stays on for a while. 

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2019, 02:27:27 PM »
Here's my Thomasville citrangequat seedling, if it helps:



The leaves started off almost all monofoliate, with just two bifoliate leaves. But the newer leaves seem to be a mix of bifoliate and trifoliate, with most of the very newest growth being trifoliate.

LBurford

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • USA, Arkansas, Taylor, zone 8
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2019, 06:55:05 PM »
Here's my Thomasville citrangequat seedling, if it helps:



The leaves started off almost all monofoliate, with just two bifoliate leaves. But the newer leaves seem to be a mix of bifoliate and trifoliate, with most of the very newest growth being trifoliate.

Thanks, Yours looks a lot like mine.

lavender87

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • USA, GA, Smyrna, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Thomasville citrangequat... or not?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2019, 08:11:16 PM »
  This is my Thomasville citrangequat. It is simmish about 1' tall and has small leaves. I added citrus fertilizer to the pot about 3 months ago and it seemed to grow more vigorously and put out bigger leaves but still too small compared to standard Thomasville citrangequats.





« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 09:05:53 AM by lavender87 »

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers