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Author Topic: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross  (Read 1429 times)

lavender87

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Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 21, 2019, 12:53:03 PM »
  Was there such a tree exited? Will this hybrid significantly decry the quality?

  I know the Ichang Papeda fruit is itself a low quality citrus fruit, but yuzu has many uses in culinary field.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 03:08:57 PM by lavender87 »

Millet

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2019, 02:07:00 PM »
Well if you think there is any  quality in either the Yuzu or the Ichang Papeda, then I guess it will not lower the quality of either fruit.

lavender87

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2019, 03:04:05 PM »
Well if you think there is any  quality in either the Yuzu or the Ichang Papeda, then I guess it will not lower the quality of either fruit.

 :-\? I thought yuzu is famous for its uses in many cuisines. I was thinking of seedless yuzu. I read a few posts about seedless yuzu available in Japan, but it seems to be impossible to find in the US. Some opinions also claimed that seedless yuzu in Japan is not as good as the orginal yuzu interm of fragrances. I knew there are at least several varieties of seedless Ichang Papeda in both Europe and the US, so I came up with an idea of crossing yuzu with Ichang Papeda to test my luck of finding a high quality seedless yuzu.

  I am not so sure whether or not a seedless citrus mother or father would transfer his/her seedless character to off-springs.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 03:06:04 PM by lavender87 »

Millet

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2019, 04:08:41 PM »
It is always worth a try.  Many advances in citrus have been achieved by trying.

lebmung

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2019, 06:25:21 PM »
Well if you think there is any  quality in either the Yuzu or the Ichang Papeda, then I guess it will not lower the quality of either fruit.

 :-\? I thought yuzu is famous for its uses in many cuisines. I was thinking of seedless yuzu. I read a few posts about seedless yuzu available in Japan, but it seems to be impossible to find in the US. Some opinions also claimed that seedless yuzu in Japan is not as good as the orginal yuzu interm of fragrances. I knew there are at least several varieties of seedless Ichang Papeda in both Europe and the US, so I came up with an idea of crossing yuzu with Ichang Papeda to test my luck of finding a high quality seedless yuzu.

  I am not so sure whether or not a seedless citrus mother or father would transfer his/her seedless character to off-springs.

there is a hybrid with satsuma called Ichandarin Liudmila, it's said to taste similar to yuzu.

Huyen Linh Ho

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2019, 09:15:27 PM »
there is a hybrid with satsuma called Ichandarin Liudmila, it's said to taste similar to yuzu.

  Thanks, it is good to know it. Is it as hardy as yuzu? Is it seedless.

  I at first just aim for the leaf taste, but then curious about seedless yuzu. I am working on it now. It might take several years, but it is fun to try.

Oolie

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2019, 02:05:58 AM »
One technique to create a seedless citrus is by selecting for a triploid.

There's an old thread on the forums about determining ploidy in citrus.

Ilya11

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2019, 04:04:51 AM »
I am trying to do this for three years, approximately 5% of Yuzu seeds are small enough to be compatible with triploids. But these seedlings are growing rather slowly.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lavender87

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2019, 09:19:54 AM »
I am trying to do this for three years, approximately 5% of Yuzu seeds are small enough to be compatible with triploids. But these seedlings are growing rather slowly.

  Amazing, I wish you luck on your project. I think if we graft an extra rootstock to the existing slow growing yuzu seedling, it might force it to grow faster. Some types of fertilizer do help sometimes to boost growth in early stages. We can also collect scionwood after the seedling is older than 1 year old and try to graft it on a vigorously matured rootstock to boost growth.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2019, 01:33:05 PM »
there is a hybrid with satsuma called Ichandarin Liudmila, it's said to taste similar to yuzu.
It might be a hybrid of ichangensis, we're not exactly sure. Its cold hardiness hasn't been tested.
There is another thread started about it, for further discussion.

mikkel

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2019, 02:47:33 PM »

Sylvain

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 04:57:56 AM »
Very funny! This site (http://birds.songs.free.fr) is a place where I put my dwaft version of my sites before I release them.
This version of Citrus Pages is deprecated.
The right place is now http://citruspages.free.fr
It still not includes the genealogy that was discovered by DNA analyses. You might not use Citrus Page to define ancestry of citrus.
Next winter I shall update the site with the recent data.

mikkel

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 05:40:41 AM »
I`ve found both webadresses via google but there is nothing to be seen that one is just a draft and the other the proper one.
But good to know.
The point is that there is contradicting information on the web than the personal preferencies of Liudmilla descendence by some forum member.
Which proofs nothing other than there are different statements.
As long as there is no link to an scientific paper it is just a statement.
That is what I wanted to point out.

Btw I don`t care about descendency. It is nice to know but I can`t see any advantage in this knowledge which helps me. Might be different for others of course.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2019, 01:33:25 PM »
Here's the thread that contains all the information about Liudmila I was able to compile together.
" ichangensis x Satsuma ? " http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31947.msg351168#msg351168

For some reason the thread doesn't appear in a search when I type in "Liudmila", so it's probably best I share the link here.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2020, 05:05:43 PM »
I don't know if this is relevant here, but I just want to let everyone know I've tasted Yuzu and Ichang papeda, both picked fresh off the tree.
The peel of both fruits is soft and moderately edible, more edible than the peel of a lemon. In my opinion, the peel of the fruits could easily be used in cooking, especially if it was cut up into small enough pieces.
Yuzu and Ichang papeda are very similar in a way, but whereas Yuzu has a much more sour orange/mandarin type of flavor, Ichang papeda is much more lemon/citron like in flavor, maybe lime and Kaffir lime nuances as well. But they both have a little bit of deep pungency to them. Yuzu also has a bit of spiciness to its pungency.
I would say Yuzu clearly has the better quality of flavor of the two, and while Ichang papeda could potentially be used for culinary uses, it is indisputably inferior to a normal lemon or lime.
Yuzu also is completely packed with seeds, whereas Ichang papeda seems to have very few to no seeds.
(The peel of Ichang papeda might be slightly softer than Yuzu, but its peel also has a slight lemon skunkiness that I would say slightly more than negates this attribute. I would say the peel is about comparable to something like a mandarinquat or calamondin)

Yuzu and Ichang papeda are believed to be closely related to each other, but it is not known for sure exactly how. Most probably, Yuzu originated from hybridization between Ichang papeda and a mandarin. They both seem to have originated from near the same area of China.
(Changsha mandarin is another one that seems to have some relation to this group, although more distant)

Laaz

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2020, 08:12:18 PM »
Lol Charlie. Long ago I asked Gene about this citrus. He said it was nothing more than a oddity.& did not recommend it. I passed...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 09:00:19 PM by Laaz »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2020, 11:54:24 PM »
Lol Charlie. Long ago I asked Gene about this citrus. He said it was nothing more than a oddity.& did not recommend it. I passed...
Laaz, you don't even like Yuzu, so clearly you wouldn't like Ichang papeda.
(You told us before you cut down your trees because you were disappointed)

I agree it's certainly true Ichang papeda is an oddity and would not be a recommended variety in zone 9, and maybe even 8b, but it is one of the few things that can grow well outside unprotected in the colder parts of zone 8 in cooler more northerly climates, or possibly even the warmest part of zone 7 in the US South.
I do believe that's what we're talking about here.

Where you are, you don't have to worry about truly cold hardy citrus.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 11:59:27 PM by SoCal2warm »

Walt

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Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2020, 01:05:58 PM »
Seedless Kishu mandarin is pollen fertile and 50% of its seedlings are seedless.  This is not from my own experience, but is from an online journal paper.

 

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