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Author Topic: Ripping of PawPaw fruits  (Read 458 times)

usirius

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Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« on: October 03, 2019, 02:30:50 PM »
This year, one of my PawPaw trees is bearing striking fruit. When the first fruit began to tear, I thought it might be a "memory" or predisposition from an earlier evolutionary period, when the ripening fruits might still crack to release the seeds, as the relatives of the PawPaws, the magnolias, do in principle to release the ripe seeds. But now more fruits are torn, and it looks more like it has a systematic cause.  What is striking is that it has so far only occurred in the Mango variety. Interestingly, it is mostly just a crack that runs in the longitudinal direction, often also on the longitudinal line that is sometimes seen on PawPaw fruits. But not always, sometimes it is also a crack across the fear, or several cracks. Cracked fruits usually don't ripen ready and start to rot.  Does anyone have the same problem, and perhaps knows the exact cause? Is it perhaps a disease? Or how can you prevent the fruit from tearing?









« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:02:47 PM by usirius »
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SeaWalnut

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 03:26:40 PM »
Too much water maybe?
Same thing happens to grapes if they get too much rain.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 05:00:22 PM »
I’m sorry to see your fruits cracking.
Yes this is something that can happen. In fact I was just emailing with a large scale grower and he was talking about his KSU Chappell fruits cracking.
Wabash also is prone to cracking some say.

Most common cause is fungus on the skin of the fruit which causes the skin to harden. When the fruit tries to grow the hardened skin cracks.
Too much sun on the fruit can also cause cracking.
Like seawalnut said I would also think that heavy rain could cause it.

Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2019, 12:08:07 AM »
In America (not German) ever found a worm in a whole wild fruit

 peduncle borer, Talponia plummeriana,
Actually trying to find some wild ones now to graft onto mine in Southern IL Shawnee National forest>
(at hotel today though (never charged me for today SO I must rest)

Oh Persimmon too

Not sure if this is the best link But when I get home I should find better links about it.
Sure did scare me when I found one after pawpaw fest In athens ohio

Unfortunatly didn't refind the one with 4 seeds,
and the other that tasted like pineapple (90% seed)(so I just bought a GPS)
but a nice red persimmon I tagged with a sock. 

Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 12:10:27 AM »
https://www.virginiafruit.ento.vt.edu/PawPaw/PAW_000C.html

PIcture Of moth
https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Talponia-plummeriana

They didn't mention the black stuff that grows on the fruit , but I heard it doesn't harm them

IV. Pests: The pawpaw tree has few pests.


The pawpaw peduncle borer, Talponia plummeriana, may be the most severe pest (USNM image).  The larvae, which reach a length of 5 mm, feed in fleshy parts of the flower, causing flowers to drop.


Sorry for Hijacking your thread
didn't mean to just wanted to explain that boror

Speckled Talponia Moth
Cliff England with his fields of PAwpaw said it is rare for it so I wouldn't worry to much.
I wonder if a Moth is native to German that would do that (google didn't show anything)
 but did say Talponiabatesi (Оlethreutidae) was taken in a cherimoya } from Мехico.

I should look into it, and maybe start a thread of Pawpaw Annona pests.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 12:29:18 AM by Francis_Eric »

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 10:58:48 AM »
They didn't mention the black stuff that grows on the fruit , but I heard it doesn't harm them

Right, low levels of fungus do nothing to the fruit. Even a heavy fungus on the fruit doesn't, on its own, ruin the fruit - but a heavy infestation can cause skin cracking.

I will say usirius's fruits do not seem to have a lot of fungus, so i don't think this is his cause. I just wanted to put it out there as one cause of cracking.

usirius

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 03:37:14 PM »
@All: Thanks for your Responses and ideas for possible causes.

The interesting Point ist that the Problem only occurs on fruits of variety "Mango", fruits of other Paw Paws varieties are not affected. this could mean that under certain circumstances "mango" is particularly susceptible to ripping open the fruit.

This year was extremely dry, and I watered the mango a little. The tree stands (like the other trees) in sandy soil that dries out relatively quickly. The ripping of the fruit began more when it became autumnal, the nights cooler, and even more when rain started. Perhaps the weather conditions had an influence here. In fact, there are many pests imported with fruit or other goods such as plants, such as the cherry vinegar fly (Drosophila suzukii ) or the boxwood borer (Glyphodes perspectalis), whether or not moths that go on Paw Paws live here, I don't know. When opening the torn fruits I couldn't find any maggot or maggot fodder, nor any excrements.

It also doesn't look like a fungus is the cause, at least there are no visible fruiting bodies on freshly torn fruits, of course the flesh starts to rot or get moldy a few days later, but I would say this is more of a consequence than not the cause of the crack.

I will continue to observe this in the next few years, to what extent other PawPaw varieties or even Cherimoya one day have fruit bursts, or whether this effect is still limited to mango only, or whether it was just a consequence of the weather in this year and will not occur again in the next few years.
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2019, 04:50:04 PM »
Does your Mango tree have a dense leaf canopy to shade the fruit?

The friend i mentioned who was having fruits crack was attributing it to sunburn caused by lack of leaf cover. He also suspects it's a genetic/cultivar issue.

I haven't read of Mango having cracking issues but that doesn't mean much.

usirius

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 06:15:06 AM »
Thank you @TrilobaTracker for this possible lead to the cause hint. The foliage of my PawPaw tree 'Mango' is actually a little less dense than that of the other varieties. Which actually means that the fruits of 'Mango' got more sun than the fruits of my other PawPaw varieties. Do you know if PawPaw  'Mango' has been shown to have less dense foliage and smaller leaves than other PawPaw varieties?
„May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.“ N. Mandela

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 10:31:13 AM »
Do you know if PawPaw  'Mango' has been shown to have less dense foliage and smaller leaves than other PawPaw varieties?

Unfortunately i don't know. The only thing that comes to mind about Mango is that it is often recommended for warmer climates (fewer chill hours) because the original tree is from southern Georgia, USA. It's also often cited as a vigorous tree. But i have never seen a Mango tree nor tasted the fruit, sadly.

usirius

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 05:46:08 AM »
Interesting that Mango is recommended for warmer climates. This year I would say in Suthern Germany has been really temperatures like in warmer climates, nearly no hard frostr, not long enduring colder temperatures and a very very hot and dry spring and summer - until about two weeks ago when raining started. And especially in this climate thefruits began to crack. Maybe that foliage i due to the warm temperatures not grown as large and dense as maybe it does in more cool and more humid springs and summers. I will look if I have apicture from another year available for comparing the leafes and foliage from this year with those in the past. I just thought that also could be,  that the nursery who sold me the Paw Paw "Mango" labeled it worng by mistake....and I can barely check if ist has been correct labeled......
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Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 01:24:12 PM »
In fact, there are many pests imported with fruit or other goods such as plants, such as the cherry vinegar fly (Drosophila suzukii ) or the boxwood borer (Glyphodes perspectalis), whether or not moths that go on Paw Paws live here, I don't know. When opening the torn fruits I couldn't find any maggot or maggot fodder, nor any excrements.


Those Moths worms where in whole fruit
so they had to of Laid their eggs in the flowers I just wanted to clear that up.

usirius

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2019, 05:40:45 PM »
Thank you @Francis_Eric for clearing up....I did not knew this. I will have alook in next spring if I will see any motss also visiting PawPaw flowers. How big are those moths and what color do they have?
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Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2019, 06:15:51 AM »

When Looked up the species doesn't appear to be in your country
something to look out for if transplanting fruit.

Not common in America (cliff England said , but maybe they have natural predators in USA)

Did you mean A picture of The one that eats Cherimoya

(edit to try to attach picture )


« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 06:23:43 AM by Francis_Eric »

Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2019, 06:22:53 AM »
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 06:25:14 AM by Francis_Eric »

Francis_Eric

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Re: Ripping of PawPaw fruits
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2019, 07:05:00 AM »
Starting a New topic In The tropical fruit section called Annonaceae tree diseases , and problems
I may mention Blue stain disease (after grafting the grafted part dies off)
(out North western USA  or Pacific Northwest PNW  pretty sure  carried by a fungus on Pine tree's Native there.)

If I can find good links about it.

By the way about grafting
A lot of tree's people Graft if they do not like the Variety when Large

Jerry Lehman (midwest)  said he doesn't (not with PAWPAW), and His tree's where old Big looking 
KYSU (college) said tree's decline after 15 years (on web site)
I saw them They look like they graft onto older root stock
 at least the orchard where I searched for fallen old fruit for seeds.

This is KY though , I am not certain if they have Hybrids of those Species of pine
or because I read the wood is softer (I know little about grafting so far -- pines soft and grafts well long term ?)

 

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