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Author Topic: Charcoal for citrus  (Read 2599 times)

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2019, 04:08:44 PM »


A very big bag of peat moss from Denmark costs 4-500 baht....15us$....not that expensive but yes a big bag cocohusk and so is cheaper...Very big bag of new zealand pinebark fines is also 500...If you know where to buy it is not so expensive.

I was comparing the prices with Europe. I buy a good quality German made 200 liters ballot peat for 450 baht/$US 14. One can find 300L for the same price of lower quality. Coconut is more expensive here  ;D

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2019, 06:10:14 PM »
Fresh charcoal has a ph @ 8-9.Thats because of the ash content and thats why they add only 5 percent charcoal to the soil mix.
5 percent by volume not by weight since the char is soo light.

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2019, 09:25:53 PM »
Fresh charcoal has a ph @ 8-9.Thats because of the ash content and thats why they add only 5 percent charcoal to the soil mix.
5 percent by volume not by weight since the char is soo light.

Last year i soaked about 100 litre charcoal chunks for bbq in woodvinegar...i spread them all over the garden, but now a year later it's hard to find the chunks...i don't know where they are...but it was a lot. I read somewhere that it's good to add this to the soil.


sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2019, 09:29:56 PM »
In this thread and in may others threads one frequently reads that citrus are acid loving plants.  Citrus like a pH of 6.5 which is as close to being neutral (pH 7) as one can get.  Acid plants, such as blueberries, are acid loving plants, and enjoy a pH of 3.

I sure believe you Millet but when i google for citrus soil ph i get this as first reply:

The optimum pH level for citrus trees is between 5.5 and 6.5, but many areas have alkaline soils with a soil pH above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies that stunt the trees' growth.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/ph-level-very-high-citrus-trees-88015.html

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2019, 10:07:20 PM »
Fresh charcoal has a ph @ 8-9.Thats because of the ash content and thats why they add only 5 percent charcoal to the soil mix.
5 percent by volume not by weight since the char is soo light.

Last year i soaked about 100 litre charcoal chunks for bbq in woodvinegar...i spread them all over the garden, but now a year later it's hard to find the chunks...i don't know where they are...but it was a lot. I read somewhere that it's good to add this to the soil.
If you soaked the charcoal in wood vinnegar then thats why it dissapeared.
It reacted with the wood vinegar and probably got oxidised into CO2.
In that case you use both ,charcoal and wood vinegar for nothing as they cancel each otthers beneficial propertyes.

Millet

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2019, 10:18:43 PM »
Sunny, the article says "....a soil above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies"  That all depends on how high the pH is above a pH of 7 the tree is growing in.  Also problems can occur when pH levels goes to far below 6.5.  But back to my statement.  A pH of 6.5 is really not an acid soil, it is almost neutral.

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2019, 03:13:56 AM »



Today i bought 4 pomello tree's, 2 white, 1 red, 1 pink.

The left 2 are for sure in 100% charcoal powder...the right one maybe as well, i have to unpack them first to be 100% sure..


sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2019, 03:17:49 AM »
Sunny, the article says "....a soil above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies"  That all depends on how high the pH is above a pH of 7 the tree is growing in.  Also problems can occur when pH levels goes to far below 6.5.  But back to my statement.  A pH of 6.5 is really not an acid soil, it is almost neutral.

OK thanks Millet.

But if charcoal has the ph of above 7 it is base (according to seawalnut) , the tree's all look fine though...

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2019, 06:43:07 PM »
Sunny, the article says "....a soil above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies"  That all depends on how high the pH is above a pH of 7 the tree is growing in.  Also problems can occur when pH levels goes to far below 6.5.  But back to my statement.  A pH of 6.5 is really not an acid soil, it is almost neutral.

OK thanks Millet.

But if charcoal has the ph of above 7 it is base (according to seawalnut) , the tree's all look fine though...

Sunny, I tested the charcoal you have in Thailand, I honestly don't like it for plants. In fact I like more that red soil you have which is fast draining.
What you have there that I found interesting and good are rice hulls.

There are rootstocks for alkaline soils like above 7.5 for your climate.
I wonder what rootstock do those pomellos have?

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2019, 08:18:04 PM »
Sunny, the article says "....a soil above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies"  That all depends on how high the pH is above a pH of 7 the tree is growing in.  Also problems can occur when pH levels goes to far below 6.5.  But back to my statement.  A pH of 6.5 is really not an acid soil, it is almost neutral.

OK thanks Millet.

But if charcoal has the ph of above 7 it is base (according to seawalnut) , the tree's all look fine though...

Sunny, I tested the charcoal you have in Thailand, I honestly don't like it for plants. In fact I like more that red soil you have which is fast draining.
What you have there that I found interesting and good are rice hulls.

There are rootstocks for alkaline soils like above 7.5 for your climate.
I wonder what rootstock do those pomellos have?

I don't know.

I don't use this pure charcoal but the nurseries do and it works.

These pomelo's will be dekapons soon that's why i bought them.

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2019, 08:57:35 PM »



Today i bought 4 pomello tree's, 2 white, 1 red, 1 pink.

The left 2 are for sure in 100% charcoal powder...the right one maybe as well, i have to unpack them first to be 100% sure..

The upper one is with rice hulls. I guess charcoal works well in high humidity, draining fast.

Millet

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
I have been hearing a lot about the use of rice hulls in general nursery culture of bedded plants.  I am very interested in experimenting with rice hulls in the cultivation of citrus trees.  Doing tests such as the length of time before the hulls begin to deteriorate, root zone aeration, etc.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 02:08:19 PM by Millet »

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2019, 10:00:16 PM »
I have been hearing a lot about the use of rice hulls in general nursery culture of bedded plants.  I am very interested in experimenting with rice hulls in the cultivation of citrus trees.  Test such as the length of time before the hulls begin to deteriorate, root zone aeration, etc.

1 year ago i mixed 2 big bags of rice hulls in the raised beds...it's all gone already...

Oh and here the humidity is around 60, not so high. But i don't know where my new pomelo tree's were grown, it might be in the south where the humidity is high.

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2019, 02:52:40 AM »
Sunny, the article says "....a soil above 7.0, which can cause nutritional deficiencies"  That all depends on how high the pH is above a pH of 7 the tree is growing in.  Also problems can occur when pH levels goes to far below 6.5.  But back to my statement.  A pH of 6.5 is really not an acid soil, it is almost neutral.

OK thanks Millet.

But if charcoal has the ph of above 7 it is base (according to seawalnut) , the tree's all look fine though...

Sunny, I tested the charcoal you have in Thailand, I honestly don't like it for plants. In fact I like more that red soil you have which is fast draining.
What you have there that I found interesting and good are rice hulls.

There are rootstocks for alkaline soils like above 7.5 for your climate.
I wonder what rootstock do those pomellos have?

As i wrote before, more than half of the fruit tree's in nurseries are grown in pure charcoal. So they all must have rootstocks which can live in high ph?

I just bought pomelo but next time i can make a pic of other fruittree's in the shops....I guess this charcoal was made from cocohusks because it is as fine as powder and charcoal from ricehusks is more course. But those nurseries just use anything they have around and is cheap, clay mixed with ricehusks or whatever they have. I have never seen their tree's in real potting soil which is sure available.


lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2019, 06:07:44 PM »
As i wrote before, more than half of the fruit tree's in nurseries are grown in pure charcoal. So they all must have rootstocks which can live in high ph?

I just bought pomelo but next time i can make a pic of other fruittree's in the shops....I guess this charcoal was made from cocohusks because it is as fine as powder and charcoal from ricehusks is more course. But those nurseries just use anything they have around and is cheap, clay mixed with ricehusks or whatever they have. I have never seen their tree's in real potting soil which is sure available.

From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.

On the side note, unfortunately almost all nurseries I've seen, have "California red scale" (Aonidiella aurantii) which is so difficult to kill in hot weather with all the systemic insecticides. In cold weather is not a problem to get rid of it.

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2019, 07:27:41 PM »
As i wrote before, more than half of the fruit tree's in nurseries are grown in pure charcoal. So they all must have rootstocks which can live in high ph?

I just bought pomelo but next time i can make a pic of other fruittree's in the shops....I guess this charcoal was made from cocohusks because it is as fine as powder and charcoal from ricehusks is more course. But those nurseries just use anything they have around and is cheap, clay mixed with ricehusks or whatever they have. I have never seen their tree's in real potting soil which is sure available.




From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.

On the side note, unfortunately almost all nurseries I've seen, have "California red scale" (Aonidiella aurantii) which is so difficult to kill in hot weather with all the systemic insecticides. In cold weather is not a problem to get rid of it.

Here the citrus are all grafted and they all have leafworms...But slow release fertilizers can stop that...new growth always has the HLB insects on it. I hope it's too warm here to get HLB infected...

I haven't seen that red scale but maybe i don't know what it looks like.

Grafting citrus is not easy, i have a low rate of success..

Ilya11

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2019, 04:28:43 AM »

From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.
Limes are very sensitive to high pH.
I think that under high temperatures and abundant rain of tropics  ash  is rapidly removed from the charcoal.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2019, 06:33:24 AM »

From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.
Limes are very sensitive to high pH.
I think that under high temperatures and abundant rain of tropics  ash  is rapidly removed from the charcoal.

I repotted my new pomelo's and 3 out of 4 were in pure charcoal.

Next time i'm in that wholesale nursery i'll check the soil of the limes....

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2019, 05:32:34 PM »

From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.
Limes are very sensitive to high pH.
I think that under high temperatures and abundant rain of tropics  ash  is rapidly removed from the charcoal.

"The Key lime is well adapted to a variety of soils. Seedling
and air-layer-propagated trees are well suited to the rocky,
calcareous soils of the Florida Keys" University of Florida

"In South Florida, Persian limes are usually propagated by air layering because they fruit very early on shallow soils with high calcareous content "

« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 05:43:00 PM by lebmung »

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2019, 05:40:31 PM »

From what I have seen there, I checked many nurseries from south to north, most of the citrus is propagated from air-layering, especially limes, which are resistant to high calcareous soil.
Limes are very sensitive to high pH.
I think that under high temperatures and abundant rain of tropics  ash  is rapidly removed from the charcoal.

I repotted my new pomelo's and 3 out of 4 were in pure charcoal.

Next time i'm in that wholesale nursery i'll check the soil of the limes....

"Most soils in Northeast Thailand are sandy and acidic (pH 4.0 in CaCl2), with high rate of drainage."

Perhaps that's why they use rice hulls charcoal over there to lower the pH.

But as I recall I measured the pH in plastic bags in a Thai nursery and it was quite acidic pH 5-6 and it was with charcoal.

https://swfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/hlb/database/pdf/00000372.pdf

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2019, 05:41:53 PM »

I haven't seen that red scale but maybe i don't know what it looks like.

[/quote]


sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2019, 09:33:51 PM »

I haven't seen that red scale but maybe i don't know what it looks like.



[/quote]

I guess our limes also will be grafted on pomelo rootstock but i don't know. Nobody asks those questions here.

Red scale i don't have on my citrus, but the bought ones all have leafworms. Maybe they even have HLB, not sure....also my dekopons don't color totally, only where the sun hits them and one even is getting brown now on the colored spot..it's soft, smells great but still green except one spot.

I don't have a ph metre so can't tell the value of my soil. Other pomelo's that i bought grow on chunks of cocohusk.

 

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