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Author Topic: Charcoal for citrus  (Read 1126 times)

SeaWalnut

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Charcoal for citrus
« on: October 08, 2019, 04:38:49 PM »
I found this link about the benefits of using charcoal for citrus trees.https://www.wakefieldbiochar.com/biochar-beats-citrus-greening-disease-and-improves-productivity/

Only 2-5 % charcoal is enough they say and i think it should be washed well first to remove the ash.

will2358

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2019, 01:31:19 PM »
Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.
My name is Cindy

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2019, 01:35:18 PM »
Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

Lots of people are using it.See this thread and at the first post there is a link with a documenfary about Terra Preta ( means black soil) .
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31671.msg363512#msg363512

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2019, 01:37:43 PM »
In every case you need to "load" the charcoal with nutritions. If not it will reduce nutritions and harm any plant.
I tested some potted Citrus with a Terra Preta mix with very high percentage of charcoal. Plants stopped to grow. Even at the end of the season no new leave showed up.
There are several plants which don`t like to grow in Terra Preta. If Citrus is one of them I can`t tell.
More probably you need to find the right percentage of charcoal by testing.

pinkturtle

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2019, 01:44:03 PM »
In the old day, famers burned the land before planting crops.  I guess this is why, Charcoal can provide a lot of nutrient to the crop.

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2019, 01:56:48 PM »
it is more the ash that provides the nutrients. Charcoal is a huge sponge and will absorb anything until it is loaded.
Growing plants with fresh charcoal will not benefit the plants.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 01:59:58 PM by mikkel »

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 02:02:09 PM »
I saw a series of tests on the web, can`t find it now.

Bomand

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2019, 02:22:42 PM »
In truth charcoal is a detriment to citrus growing. It is a hungry substance that soaks up nutrients. It takes nitrogen to make charcoal degrade. Charcoal can become acidic too. I have read the dissertations on its use and I steer clear of it. Before I knew better I tried several containers with lime and various seedlings and.......all treated the same the pots with charcoal came up lacking and I repotted minus the charcoal.

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2019, 02:30:31 PM »
Before charcoal can be used it must soak in nutrients for a longer time. If not it will be a detriment to any plant.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2019, 03:05:12 PM »
Before charcoal can be used it must soak in nutrients for a longer time. If not it will be a detriment to any plant.
No ,its not detrimental to any plant.Charcoal its inert,doeant decompose too easy and doesnt decompose by bacteria.
I use fresh charcoal on hundreds of trees in my orchard and i do add only nitrogen right before i use it.
The reason why your citrus struggled with charcoal its not because of the charcoal itself but because of the ash.
Charcoal is not ash.
Ash its alkaline and your citrus want acidic soil not alkaline so in order to use charcoal for citrus or otther acid loving plants you have to wash it  and make sure has as little ash as possible.
Also use max 8 percent charcoal for citrus.For my orchard trees i use 25 percent but because charcoal contains somme ash  ,for citrus you have to use less.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2019, 03:07:39 PM »
I saw a series of tests on the web, can`t find it now.
see in my original message a link where it says to use 2-5% charcoal for citrus.You said you used a lot wich is thats why your plants didnt grow- your fault.

Bomand

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2019, 03:30:25 PM »
Well I am convinced that charcoal is deyrimental to citrus by my own experience and therefore choose not to use it. Others can form their own opinions and opt to not use it or modify their use of it.

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2019, 03:34:18 PM »
You said you used a lot wich is thats why your plants didnt grow- your fault.
That`s what I intended to say  I tested it with an higher percentage and it failed so it might be helpful for others to know. But it is not to show that it is wrong at all. It`s not a blame game. :)
It is fine that others say what percentage is right, my intention was to test "what is wrong" or if there is another "right".
I am interested in Terra Preta but I am open to the idea that it might not work for everything as well. So I test it by myself.



Walt

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 03:19:39 PM »
In such discussions, remember that we have many different soils to start with.
I am looking into using charcoal in my potting mix.  And I am looking into a local factory that made the "cinders" for cinder blocks.  They used to give away any that got soil mixed in.  This material is actually clay with organic matter mixed in.  The firing burns out the organic matter, leaving pores in the fired clay.  I used to grow bonsai in it, without additives except fertilizer. 

dlhvac

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2019, 07:09:39 PM »
Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

Bio char is a little different than charcoal the oxygen is removed from biochar when making it and I have used ashes and added ammonium sulfate to bring ph down look up utube video green dreams Pete Kanaris he shows how to put it in a container that is sealed so you get pure https://youtu.be/3rDk2SPEhZU
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 08:35:55 PM by dlhvac »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2019, 10:46:56 PM »
Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

Bio char is a little different than charcoal the oxygen is removed from biochar when making it and I have used ashes and added ammonium sulfate to bring ph down look up utube video green dreams Pete Kanaris he shows how to put it in a container that is sealed so you get pure https://youtu.be/3rDk2SPEhZU
He makes charcoal free from ash wich is alkaline.
I prefer to make a fire and when the flames are off and only the red coals remain ,i estinguish it with water= charcoal that has soome ash soaked in it wich is beneficial except it can raise the soil ph a little .
Biochar is just charcoal that has been colonised by bacteria and fungi.
Any charcoal that is put in the soil becomes ,,biochar,, and if its soaked in nutrients becomes colonised by bacteria and fungi faster.

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2019, 08:24:13 PM »
Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

In Thailand the nurseries grow tree's in pure charcoal dust.....made from rice or cocohusk charcoal....works very well but you have to water every day.

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2019, 04:11:28 PM »
Thailand has a tropical climate and peat moss is expensive there. Charcoal and a rice rice hulls in cold climates start to form mold and other dangerous pathogens that will suffocate the roots especially wet autumn/winter.

Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

In Thailand the nurseries grow tree's in pure charcoal dust.....made from rice or cocohusk charcoal....works very well but you have to water every day.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 06:43:35 PM by lebmung »

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 03:32:29 AM »
Thailand has a tropical climate and pear moss is expensive there. Charcoal and a rice rice hulls in cold climates start to form mold and other dangerous pathogens that will suffocate the roots especially wet autumn/winter.

Has anyone ever used the charcoal to grow your plants. It sounds very interesting.

In Thailand the nurseries grow tree's in pure charcoal dust.....made from rice or cocohusk charcoal....works very well but you have to water every day.

A very big bag of peat moss from Denmark costs 4-500 baht....15us$....not that expensive but yes a big bag cocohusk and so is cheaper...Very big bag of new zealand pinebark fines is also 500...If you know where to buy it is not so expensive.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2019, 04:55:33 AM »
Charcoal doesnt mold because its almost an inert material.
It doesnt break down by fungi like plant matter or wood and  last thousands of years.
Also ,to grow plants in charcoal only doesnt seem to be a good idea because charcoal has somme ash in it and that makes a high ph medium.
If you plant an acid loving plant like citrus in only charcoal ,it will die fast.
In the article from the first message they talk about 5 % charcoal into the soil mix.

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2019, 06:08:07 AM »

Also ,to grow plants in charcoal only doesnt seem to be a good idea because ...


but they do, as @sunny has published it. Shouldn't the question be how they do it?

sunny

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2019, 09:58:40 AM »

Also ,to grow plants in charcoal only doesnt seem to be a good idea because ...


but they do, as @sunny has published it. Shouldn't the question be how they do it?

Almost half the tree's that i buy are grown in pure charcoal dust.....and i'm not going to argue about it i know what i see.

mikkel

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2019, 10:19:25 AM »
Almost half the tree's that i buy are grown in pure charcoal dust.....and i'm not going to argue about it i know what i see.
Just to be sure. I hope you didn`t misunderstood my post. I am interested in it and I want to know about it.
My post was a reply toSeaWalnut.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 04:24:29 PM by mikkel »

Millet

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2019, 11:36:29 AM »
In this thread and in may others threads one frequently reads that citrus are acid loving plants.  Citrus like a pH of 6.5 which is as close to being neutral (pH 7) as one can get.  Acid plants, such as blueberries, are acid loving plants, and enjoy a pH of 3. 

lebmung

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Re: Charcoal for citrus
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2019, 04:03:10 PM »
In this thread and in may others threads one frequently reads that citrus are acid loving plants.  Citrus like a pH of 6.5 which is as close to being neutral (pH 7) as one can get.  Acid plants, such as blueberries, are acid loving plants, and enjoy a pH of 3.

I guess many people here have hard water in which a soil mix of pH 6.5 will turn to 7 in few months.
I start with a ph 6 so it gives me more time like a year to reach 7, then I try to bring it down. Salt accumulation is the biggest enemy especially for PT rootstock.

 

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