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Author Topic: Frost Protection  (Read 560 times)

will2358

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Frost Protection
« on: October 19, 2019, 08:08:21 PM »
Well it's getting a chilly outside so I wanted to ask opinions on frost protection. So far I only have 4 that will remain outside this year. 3 in the ground and one in a pot. I was looking at Agfabric but does it really help on those really cold days. I was also looking at a MIgardener video and he wraps his trees in bubble wrap and a garbage bag. A few years ago I used a light and a PVC small greenhouse to protect a meyers lemon. I saw this on pinterest. I might build my pvc covers like this.

My name is Cindy

Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2019, 08:24:11 PM »
I am in a little different zone than you. If we get a just bearly freeze I throw an old blanket over what I protect. If we get into the low twenties I use the blanket then wrap the whole thing in cheap blue tarp. Your protection will work for you...it looks like a mini greenhouse....lights in the canopy will also work.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2019, 08:32:20 PM »
Keep in mind that air is the insulator( best insulator in the world) so a double layer give you insulation while a single layer has no insulation propertyes but will get warm if the sun shines because of the greengouse effect.
That heat from the greenhouse effect can radiate a few hours after the sun is off.
Bubble wrap or any type of transparent plastic wrap with an air gap sealed in between is a good insulation and you also get the greenhouse heating  effect during the day.
Think of stirofoam insulation.Its the air trapped in the stirofoam that insulates ,not the plastic itself.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 08:42:01 PM »
Keep in mind that air is the insulator( best insulator in the world) so a double layer give you insulation while a single layer has no insulation propertyes but will get warm if the sun shines because of the greengouse effect.
That heat from the greenhouse effect can radiate a few hours after the sun is off.
Bubble wrap or any type of transparent plastic wrap with an air gap sealed in between is a good insulation and you also get the greenhouse heating  effect during the day.
Think of stirofoam insulation.Its the air trapped in the stirofoam that insulates ,not the plastic itself.

The styrofoam sounds like a good idea. We can get snow and ice during a winter.
This is a little off topic but what is up with all of the RogerShula quest post in citrus about nothing that has to do with plants.
My name is Cindy

Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 09:00:30 PM »
Someone is spamming the forum.

Millet

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2019, 12:57:02 AM »
Sorry for all the spam on this site.  I had to go through the process of deleting each spam post one post at a time.  I have asked the administration how to faster handle this situation.

Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2019, 10:20:52 AM »
Good job Millet. I really do not understand spammers.....I have no desire to bomb someones site....old school I guess....I just dont go where I am not wanted.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2019, 12:11:35 PM »
Thanks Millet for deleting it. Do you have any recommendation on the frost the frost protection?  I really want my trees to make thru the winter. Next year I have lots more to plant out. Most of my trees are only a foot or so tall and I was advised not to plant them this year. I also have seedlings grown from seed that I will plant some out next year. I might try the Plant Protector for the seedlings next year. https://www.growitnow.com/product-category/plant-protectors/ 
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Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 01:05:13 PM »
The water filled plant protectors will probably work like a charm. The only drawback is the small size. You stated your plants are small and these would fit. I have a similar working home made device that works. I take a five gallon plastic bucket (availiable at all the big box stores), cut the bottom out of it and make a cut from top to bottom on the side. This allows you to flex the bucket enough to get it around your plant. Put the bucket around the plant, fill with sand enough to cover the graft union for grafted plants. Throw something over the top and you are ready for a cold night. The bucket can be left on for the duration of the deleterious cold weather. Just take your cover off the top during good days. If you leave it on for extended times be sure your trunk does not sun scald when you take it off. You can paint trunks with water based latex paint that is left over from the last time you painted.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 04:09:58 PM »
Thanks Bomand! I have lots of 5 gallon buckets from my hydroponics days. I will use the buckets if they are not too large next fall.
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Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2019, 08:04:45 PM »
If you have snow and ice make sure your structure can hold up under the weight of it. My bent over pvc pipe domes secured to ground with rebar stakes hold up under heavy snow but as tree gets about 6 ft tall, I end up having to build wooden structures around each tree.










brian

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2019, 09:25:54 PM »
Ive read wrapping christmas lights (non-LED) around the tree and turning them on when it freezes can keep the tree warm enough.  Ive never tried it personally

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 09:47:26 PM »
If you have snow and ice make sure your structure can hold up under the weight of it. My bent over pvc pipe domes secured to ground with rebar stakes hold up under heavy snow but as tree gets about 6 ft tall, I end up having to build wooden structures around each tree.


Do you have hot water in the trash cans?
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Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2019, 09:50:36 PM »
I canít find old-fashioned Christmas lights and my POA wonít let us do Christmas lights for half the year anyway. Iíve wondered about propane patio heaters but I donít think it would be economical nor would the heater last more than a few hours.

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 09:57:46 PM »
The trash cans are filled with well water or rainwater in late October and dumped out in spring in early May. The sun is supposed to heat the water in black cans during day and the water in the cans provides heat to the enclosure during freezing temperatures. As water freezes it gives off some heat. The volume of water in enclosure also means less air space for my electric space heaters to heat when the thermo cubes turn them on when temperature gets to 35 degrees.

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2019, 10:10:41 PM »
Hereís pics of the wooden frames that I put up around my owari and meiwa this weekend. The trees are now too tall for my 17 ft long pvc pipe domes. They are screwed together so Iíll take them down in spring. Iíll have to put the 4 mil plastic on the frames next weekend. Usually get first freeze at Halloween or at least by twelfth of November. My Croxton is still small enough for pvc dome.






brian

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2019, 11:09:07 PM »
That looks really solid.  Nice

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 01:49:17 PM »
Interesting winter protection solution from online nursery Ahrenz+Sieberz:

https://www.as-garten.de/ueberwinterungszelt-igloo



Of course, if you have some technical skills, you can reproduce this solution in these or other dimensions.
ĄMay your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.ď N. Mandela

Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
Interesting....a great idea for those that need extended protection. Cost would determine feasability of construction.

lebmung

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 05:59:57 AM »
Think of stirofoam insulation.Its the air trapped in the stirofoam that insulates ,not the plastic itself.

Not necessary see high density XPS

lebmung

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2019, 06:06:54 AM »
Plastic closures are dangerous during the winter such are these domes especially in zones under 7.
The thing is that air get trapped inside with a high moisture content which make it a bad insulator. for citrus is not a good long term solution like 3 months long winter.
Why? Because the plants need aeration, citrus sleeps well with dry cold air, not humid. This will lead to disease and die back.

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2019, 06:11:43 AM »
You're right. When temperatures in the inner side gets above 0įC there water will condense and that promotes mold and rot. The trick is to open the protection than and let new dry ait in. And also of course close when freezing temperatures will come again (after sun is going away or after taupe periods)  I do so since years and than this principle will work well.
ĄMay your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.ď N. Mandela

TooFarNorth

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2019, 07:03:08 AM »
This is how I protect mine.  I am in zone 8a also, about 75 miles south of you.




So far has worked fairly well.  I haven't lost a tree yet, though I have had some minor damage.


TFN

TooFarNorth

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2019, 07:23:38 AM »
That is frost cloth gathered at the bottom, ready to pull up and secure with ball bungee on cold nights.  I use 7 ft. 1 1/2 oz. on smaller trees and 12 ft 1 oz on taller trees.




Keeping the ground clear and bear under the tree helps provide heat from earth heat sink.  If possible block north wind also. 


TFN

Bomand

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2019, 07:42:31 AM »
Any cold protection requires attention and maintenance. As was stated, in areas where condensation becomes a problem proper and timely opening and closing the containment is a must. The secret for cold protection is: Find out what works for you in your area and do the work required to facilitate good cold protection. Not every soloution works for everyone and expermentation is required to determine what wodks for you.

 

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