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Author Topic: Frost Protection  (Read 4243 times)

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2019, 08:59:36 PM »
Thats right, Bomand. When its not freezing, I roll up the door side of my enclosures to ventilate my trees and put concrete blocks under the sides of plastic to lift it and vent underneath on all sides. I water my trees in the enclosures weekly and try to saturate soil before a freeze to help add freeze protection and hydrate tree. This was recommended at our southeastern citrus expos and I havent had a problem with rot in the past seven years. Frost cloth does not insulate enough against the severe cold I get here in western NC, so I use 4 mil plastic sheeting. Ive seen it not get above freezing for the whole month of January several years ago. Happy winterizing to one and all!

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 06:12:01 PM »
I cant find old-fashioned Christmas lights and my POA wont let us do Christmas lights for half the year anyway. Ive wondered about propane patio heaters but I dont think it would be economical nor would the heater last more than a few hours.
What about an halogen bulb shop light? That is what I plan on using, with an outside timer.
My name is Cindy

brian

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2019, 06:30:47 PM »
A full 15 or 20lb "grill tank" of propane should last 24hrs on the low setting.  I have used them extensively.  They make a lot of heat.

A halogen bulb is probably fine for keeping a small area a little warmer than outside

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2019, 07:40:25 PM »
I tried shop lights under some young trees that Id surrounded with plastic over wire cages years ago. Tried reptile purple heat lamp bulbs. I found unfortunately that half the time I would find the bulbs shattered the next morning; I think the bulbs got condensation on them and froze and when they came on, heated up, and shattered. Im done with light bulb heat and just do space heaters with fans to circulate air.

Ilya11

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 03:56:57 AM »
Here we have heating cables for the water pipe protection.
They work well  to keep the temperature above freezing. I guess they are also available in USA.
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                       Ilya

brian

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 09:09:13 AM »
I tried shop lights under some young trees that Id surrounded with plastic over wire cages years ago. Tried reptile purple heat lamp bulbs. I found unfortunately that half the time I would find the bulbs shattered the next morning; I think the bulbs got condensation on them and froze and when they came on, heated up, and shattered. Im done with light bulb heat and just do space heaters with fans to circulate air.

Ah I hadn't thought about the sudden temperature change breaking the bulbs.  Good point. 

hardyvermont

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 03:20:09 PM »
A 250 watt space heater for $12 is enough to keep a tarp covered area 10 x 17 near or above freezing most winters.  Citrus go dormant in cold weather, I am still learning how long they can be kept covered without damage.  Last an Owari was kept mostly in the dark until April, and had a large crop of fruit this year.

Millet

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2019, 05:51:18 PM »
Back in the days of Kings, Queens and large castles, they put their citrus tree in their dark cellar throughout the winter months and they did fine.

lebmung

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2019, 06:46:27 PM »
6 to 7 weeks in dark at 6-8 C in a cellar they will survive, tested. More than that they start losing leaves.

lebmung

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2019, 06:47:23 PM »
Has anyone used Infrared bulbs? The one used to heat the chickens.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2019, 06:44:11 PM »
Has anyone used Infrared bulbs? The one used to heat the chickens.
The infared bulb sounds like a great idea. I will place my light on a timer.

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kumin

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2019, 06:58:15 PM »
will2358, I believe my preference would be thermostatic control rather than time control, simply because temperature excesses would have the lamp turn off regardless of time of day, to avoid overheating damage. Likewise very cold temperatures during daytime would turn the lamp on regardless of time of day.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2019, 08:42:40 PM »
will2358, I believe my preference would be thermostatic control rather than time control, simply because temperature excesses would have the lamp turn off regardless of time of day, to avoid overheating damage. Likewise very cold temperatures during daytime would turn the lamp on regardless of time of day.
Lack of funds and the fact that it is a plastic cover for 1 plant instead of a greenhouse. I already have the timer and I only need to buy the bulb. Actually when I did have my greenhouse I used a small electric heater on a timer to keep things from freezing. I heated the GH like that for a few years.
My name is Cindy

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 09:28:35 PM »
You can get a thermo cube from Tractor Supply or a similar thermostatic device for under $15 at Lowes. Or online. I plug my heaters into a thermo cube at beginning of winter and let it protect the trees for me while knowing Im not wasting as much electricity or possibly over heating my trees and causing them to break dormancy. My only labor for the trees after winterizing them is watering at least once a week and opening and closing the door on enclosure to vent when not freezing temps, again to prevent overheating and breaking dormancy.

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2019, 03:22:41 PM »
You can get a thermo cube from Tractor Supply or a similar thermostatic device for under $15 at Lowes. Or online. I plug my heaters into a thermo cube at beginning of winter and let it protect the trees for me while knowing Im not wasting as much electricity or possibly over heating my trees and causing them to break dormancy. My only labor for the trees after winterizing them is watering at least once a week and opening and closing the door on enclosure to vent when not freezing temps, again to prevent overheating and breaking dormancy.
Will the thermo cube work on a heat lamp?
My name is Cindy

kumin

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2019, 03:30:01 PM »
The Farm Innovators Thermo Cube is a temperature controlled electrical outlet adapter.
This is model TC-3 available at Tractor Supply, as long as the amperage is not exceeded it should be fine.
    It operates with any 15 amp 120 volt electric heater or fan. Less than 15 amp heating device will not be a problem.
    It plugs directly into any standard outlet.
    It is thermostatically controlled and turns the power on and off automatically, according to the outside ambient air temperature.
    It converts a single outlet into a convenient double receptacles.
    It saves money by using power only when temperature requires.

One requirement is that the Thermo Cube is at the same temperature exposure as the plants. Within the enclosure is probably best so it can monitor the plant"s environment.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 03:42:13 PM by kumin »

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2019, 04:30:07 PM »
For 20 years I have been heating my approx. 15 m2 cold greenhouse frost-free with two small standard heating fans - two of them because experience has shown that one can fail at a time...so the greenhouse doesn't completely freeze in severe frosts.....the heating fans can be set to 1500 or 2000 watts. They have included also a thermostat, but it is too imprecise for me. Therefore I set it to full heat and control the fan heaters again separately with two room thermostats / socket thermostats with wired sensors, which I can position away from the fan heaters. So both fan heaters heat independently of each other in the greenhouse, and if one (or a thermostat) fails the other can still heat....that was already the case three times in the time and has ensured the plants in the meantime as long as the survival, until I could determine the Pro and solve. blem have determined... The thermostat setting is 2C (35.6F) as the lower limit and 4C (39.2F) as the upper limit to minimize heating costs and still ensure survival, so I winter not only more robust citrus but also more sensitive ones like the Australian citrus or warmth-loving potted plants like Natal plum (Carissa macrocarpa) or Surinam cherry / Pitanga / Kirschmyrte (Eugenia uniflora) or the Kingprotea (Protea cynaroides)too, survive this very well! Thermocontrolled heating also avoids overheating when for example sun is shining in a clear winter day into the green house. Of course when there are no freezing temperatures outside I am opening  the windows as long the sun is shining to avoid overheating by sun shine also.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 04:32:16 PM by usirius »
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

kumin

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 05:41:46 PM »
1500 Watts is likely serious overkill for a small enclosure. The wattage should not be higher than the equivalent wattage of a correctly sized lightbulb.

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2019, 03:11:13 AM »
Hi, as I have said the 1500 Watts in my case are controlled by a thermostat - therefore 1500 Watt are not overdimensioned. In case of strong freezes the 1500 Watt are not enough for heating up such a large greenhouse frost free.....to  make sure, I have pottet plants in this green huse, which are not able to withstand freezing temperatures below 32F (0C) ....
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

kumin

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2019, 05:29:18 AM »
In a very small enclosure as pictured, a very powerful heat source can overheat plants before the thermostat may react. This should not be a concern in an appropriately matched heater and enclosure. My concern was that the original poster may have an enclosure not much larger than the tree, in which case the tree could be vulnerable to scorching. In a larger enclosure this is much less of a concern.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 05:31:18 AM by kumin »

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2019, 11:26:42 AM »
Yes Kumin you are right, in a small enclosure of course such an heater would overheat and make no sense. Of course the power should be adapted according to enclosure which should be heated. Thanks for the hint.
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

will2358

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2019, 01:17:22 PM »
I referring to the infrared bulb mentioned by lebmung. Will it work on an infrared heat lamp?
My name is Cindy

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2019, 08:25:55 PM »
All I know is the thermo cube is basically a switch plugged into a wall socket or an extension cord and when the temperature around it gets to 35 degrees, the switch allows electricity to flow to whatever device you have plugged into it. You could plug a lamp, a toaster, a hair dryer, a radio, a space heater, a shop light, I imagine an infrared heat lamp, anything you want. I plugged shop light with a purple reptile heat bulb into it and it worked but the bulb busted due to condensation on the glass bulb being cold and then the heat shattered the glass. Id just hope the infrared bulb, if glass, wont shatter in an outside humid environment.

Citradia

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2019, 08:28:59 PM »
https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/2170275?$456$
Im trying to post a pic of thermocube I got off Tractor Supply site.

usirius

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Re: Frost Protection
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2019, 03:15:30 AM »
According to my knowledge and experiences with infrared light bulbs I think they are warming the surfaces (leafes, stems, twigs) too hot. I would prefere normal light bulbs which I am doing for some plants I have in plein air with a simple frost protection, I do not use an thermo cube ecause I am using low wattages (between 3W and 20 W) I can let run them during frost periodes permanently - minimum for night - than switched by a timer - without any danger of damaging. From time to time I am looking at weather news for deciding to swithch bulb of,  or on or to change the bulb, use one  with more or less power.
May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears. N. Mandela

 

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