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Author Topic: durian seedlings  (Read 2344 times)

brian

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durian seedlings
« on: December 11, 2019, 11:06:44 AM »
I now have a bunch of durian seeds sprouting.  How sensitive is their taproot and how much room do they need for their first few months?  Sensitive to transplantation?   I normally sprout seeds in 4in square pots that hold maybe a quart of soil and then up-pot from there.   I also have some "citri-pots" that are long and skinny like this that I used for mangosteen and lucs mexican garcinia that have long taproots.

usual pot


"citri-pot"

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 11:28:45 AM »
Your "citri-pot" is the better choice.  My experience is that the taproot doesn't like to meet resistance.  Good luck with your seedlings!

Finca La Isla

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 11:50:05 AM »
I actually think that a wider pot is a good idea for the first months.  Some growers will cut the tap root to promote lateral rooting.  Durian does not occur naturally in places that have a long dry season and thus need a long tap root.  A standard 1 gallon pot is what I would use.
Peter

brian

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 12:42:49 PM »
Thanks, I will try a mix of long & skinny and usual containers, as I only have a couple of the skinny pots. 

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 01:00:25 PM »
I totally agree with Finca La Isla that wider pots may be used if the intent is to encourage lateral root growth - particularly if the intent is to ultimately plant them in the ground.  But, unless I'm mistaken, you are in Pennsylvania so you're probably not going to be planting these outside.  I have not had good long-term results when I have cut the tap root on my potted durian, so I leave the tap roots alone and plant in deep, fairly narrow pots with a well-draining mix.  They like constantly moist soil but they hate soggy soil.

Regards,
Scott   

brian

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 01:41:18 PM »
I will most likely plant one in the ground eventually, but I'd have to build another greenhouse.  They'll have to stay in containers for at least a couple years.  This is mostly an experiment to see if durian can thrive this far north.  I have heat, automatic drip irrigation, and high humidity, but I don't know if they will tolerate the low light levels in winter. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:43:31 PM by brian »

Finca La Isla

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2019, 01:56:17 PM »

So these are some grafted durians in my nursery. Durian is not a fast grower but my intention would be to keep these trees in these pots for maybe another four months or so. To keep for much longer Iíd go to at least a 3 gallon pot. Actually the ones you see are likely to get planted out within the next 2 months with a commitment to very good care.
Peter

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2019, 02:04:07 PM »
I'm told that seedling durian are under-story plants, so low light shouldn't be an issue.  I have 15 durian seedlings (Chanee, Ganyao, kutajensis, graveolens, and kinabaluensis) planted in the ground under a large oak tree in my yard.  They seem to enjoy the partial shade when they are young.  What they don't seem to enjoy is winter in Florida LOL!  But they have survived for 2 years now.

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2019, 02:05:11 PM »

So these are some grafted durians in my nursery. Durian is not a fast grower but my intention would be to keep these trees in these pots for maybe another four months or so. To keep for much longer Iíd go to at least a 3 gallon pot. Actually the ones you see are likely to get planted out within the next 2 months with a commitment to very good care.
Peter

Beautiful trees!  You're very lucky to be in a climate that supports them!!!

Finca La Isla

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2019, 02:13:13 PM »
Youíre not so far from where Bill Whitman fruited mangosteen so...  Though he claimed that his beach/estuary created a micro climate unique to the region.
Luck doesnít have anything to do with it.  We make a huge sacrifice to be here. 😂
I hope you guys can keep your durians from freezing.  Iíd shoot for a ph of about 6-6.5
Suerte
Peter

brian

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 02:32:13 PM »
Do durian trees fruit significantly faster when grafted versus seedlings?  If so I'll just get a grafted one if my seedlings survive long enough for me to be confident this is viable.

EDIT - I had never heard of Bill Whitman, google turned up this article:  https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/us/04whitman.html

"William F. Whitman Jr., a self-taught horticulturist who became renowned for collecting rare tropical fruits from around the world and popularizing them in the United States, died Wednesday at his home in Bal Harbour, Fla. He was 92."

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2019, 02:55:41 PM »
I'm told that grafted durian trees do fruit faster.  That's reasonable.  But I'm also told that there are several varieties that can bear fruit from seed in 3-5 years in optimal conditions.  Who knows....  I'll just be happy if my trees reach 3-5 years of age.   Mangosteen appears to be significantly easier than durian in my extremely limited experience.  I don't have a fruiting mangosteen (yet) but I do have mangosteen growing happily in the ground right next to the very cold and unhappy durian seedlings.  Temperatures have been as low as the mid-50s here, and that doesn't seem to have bothered the mangosteen at all.  It's really wreaked havoc on the durian, tho.  Oh well - tough love.  I don't want a tree I have to pamper, so I'm admittedly pretty rough on my durian.   

brian

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2019, 03:07:02 PM »
Is durian harmed at 55F?  Or simply doesn't grow?  I have my greenhouse heater set at 55F and all my tropicals are fine so far.

Finca La Isla

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2019, 03:16:14 PM »
William Whitman was a friend of mine. He visited my project in CR many times and I stayed at his house in Miami.
On average durian seedlings will take 7-12 years to fruit.
Grafted trees 5-6 years. Iíve never heard of a seedling producing in 3 years.
Perhaps durians can take 55, I donít know. At best theyíll probably go dormant at that temp.

Mike T

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 04:59:33 PM »
Some seedlings produce in around 8 or 9 years but its usually much longer for durian and grafted trees rarely produce before 6 years.Not many if any D.zibethinus cant handle 55f and there is a wide range of cold tolerance between varieties. 50f as a winter minimum is fine for most with a few exceptions and the more cold tolerant varieties are ok down to 40f.

brian

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 05:08:10 PM »
Thanks for clarification.  If my "ultra tropicals" do okay I'll eventually put them in their own greenhouse, where I can leave the temperature at 60F or whatever makes sense.   I haven't been able to find any clear examples of fruit trees that are damaged below 55F. I was only growing citrus until last year so I still have a lot to learn.

shot

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 05:33:06 PM »
My 3 red prawn seedlings are going into their 4th winter they seem fairly tough.One has a cullenia excelsa grafted to it,to see if it helps.
Letting them go dry is the worst thing I lost one to dry spell and set the others back.
Also 1 durio graveolens doing well but slower it is a very dark red fleshed.
All direct sowed in ground.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 05:41:35 PM by shot »

Mike T

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 07:04:32 PM »
I have a red prawn that is setting fruit now.
https://www.agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/publications/02-091.pdf
This paper shows an evaluation of a few durian clones about 20 years ago and looks at features that may interest durian enthusiasts.

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 08:42:04 PM »
I'm placing most of my hopes on D. kinabulensis.  It seems the least affected by the winter temps.  The others have lost leaves and look pretty unhappy despite regular watering.  I'm on sand, so I've given them all lots of gypsum and time-release fertilizer.  Hopefully, they'll perk up again once the weather warms up.  We'll see.  I'm just hoping they survive.  This is the first batch that has actually made it to the 2 year mark.

Mike T

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 09:20:34 PM »
D.kinabulensis might not be the selection of choice for the Durio connoisseur.

noochka1

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2019, 06:06:23 AM »
D.kinabulensis might not be the selection of choice for the Durio connoisseur.

I completely agree :-)  But if the choice is fresh kinabulensis vs. some hideous frozen Mong Thong it may be an easier choice to make.  Anyway, we'll see what happens.  I'd love to fruit durian here, but 8 years worth of failed trials doesn't leave me very hopeful.

shot

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2019, 09:33:18 AM »
Thanks for the link Mike T.Aussie have a paper on alt root stocks for artocarpus,Josh might have it.
 I wish they had included humidity values data.But they do have a lot of important data in that paper
A note on ph values 5.6 5.8, I might want to bump mine down as I'm at 6.5 it used to be very low.
 I still see my biggest failure was letting them get drought stressed as it's taken months to get over that.

fruitlovers

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2019, 04:11:07 PM »
I will most likely plant one in the ground eventually, but I'd have to build another greenhouse.  They'll have to stay in containers for at least a couple years.  This is mostly an experiment to see if durian can thrive this far north.  I have heat, automatic drip irrigation, and high humidity, but I don't know if they will tolerate the low light levels in winter.
There was somebody years past growing durians in pots in Maryland, close to DC. He brought the plants into his garage during winter. They survived well as house plants. But ofcourse fruiting them in cold climates is a different story.
The durian is easy to transplant as long as you give them some extra shade and TLC after transplanting. I use one gallon pots to start them off. My latest technique is to transplant them directly into the ground after they get 1 foot tall in their gallon pots. They go into wire cages with shade cloth in the ground. Once the plants top the 4 foot tall cages then the cage comes off.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2019, 04:17:21 PM »
D.kinabulensis might not be the selection of choice for the Durio connoisseur.
How do you know? Have you tried it? Have a friend that was just in Borneo and ate a bunch and he told me they were really great.
Oscar

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Re: durian seedlings
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2019, 04:21:24 PM »
Common knowledge is that grafted durians produce faster than seedling durians. But with a planting of about 30 durins trees here unfortunately that has not been my experience. Both the seedlings and the grafts started to fruit in about 10 years. I'm thinking people give grafted trees more attention, and that's what really gets them to fruit much faster. All my trees were treated the same, not much fert, and no pruning.
Oscar

 

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