Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.  (Read 21356 times)

samuelforest

  • Montreal (5b) COLD!
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
  • Mangoes!
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2012, 11:12:34 AM »
I don't know why your fruits dropped??? It is pretty weird.

TnTrobbie

  • runs with pruners
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 774
  • I have a spot for that.
    • 10b + 9b FL
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2012, 11:41:15 AM »
It could be due to soil micronutrient deficiencies. I've read that Boron (I believe) prevents premature mango drops. That's why soil amendment, natural, products like Azomite can help.
The Earth laughs in flowers. And bear gifts through fruits.
No where to plant it...but atleast I got it. ;)

MangoFang

  • Palm Springs, CA, Zone 9B
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Palm Springs, CA
    • Riverside, Palm Springs/CA, 92264,9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2012, 06:10:23 PM »
...the tree looks great, Pan - so your neighbor built a fence that will block some of the sun that hits inside
the structure?  If so, yeah, that's not good - you need that heat gain during the day....

Good Luck - MF
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 01:03:55 PM by MangoFang »

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2012, 02:44:00 PM »
I don't know why your fruits dropped??? It is pretty weird.
It could be due to soil micronutrient deficiencies. I've read that Boron (I believe) prevents premature mango drops. That's why soil amendment, natural, products like Azomite can help.

I'm not sure. It may be some nutritional problem indeed, but the plants seems fine, so i'm giong towards some kind of problem realted to cold (we have had nights at about 55F after the fruit set).
However, the plant itself didn't set many fruit - just about ten fruits, so the fact that no fruit survived after the "pea-size" stage may be the normal behaviour of a mango in a "off" year.

...the tree looks great, Pan - so your neighbor built a fence that will block some of the sun that hits inside
the structure?  If so, yeah, that's not good - you need that head gain during the day....

That's right Gary, it isn't any good for my plant, but there isn't much i can do without involving lawyers, and it simply isn't woth the effort. :(
I'll keep an eye on the temperatures in the structure, and if they are too low, i'll add some kind of heater. 
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2013, 03:12:30 PM »
For those who may be interested, here the round 3 has started.





The plant is still alive. The stem problem is getting worse as years go by, but apparently hasn't been able to kill the plant yet.
We have had the coldest spring since 1991 this is the reason why i'm so late on blooms. I'm wondering if they will be able to ripen, given our short summer, in case i'll be able to get some fruit, but we will see.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

MangoFang

  • Palm Springs, CA, Zone 9B
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Palm Springs, CA
    • Riverside, Palm Springs/CA, 92264,9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2013, 04:46:03 PM »
Hurray, Pan!

Was wondering when you'd report on the mango experiment.  What did you
mean by a "stem" problem - don't know if I remember you had one......

Personally, I think you can still get mangoes this year if you get some to hold.
Don't forget, the last 20% (or so) of the fruit's ripening can occur on your
kitchen shelf......

Now let's just hope for a nice warm summer....

Be well, amigo, and keep us posted!


Gary
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 11:42:19 PM by MangoFang »

Miguel.pt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
    • Portugal, Northwest, climate 9a/9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2013, 06:17:52 PM »
buonasera Pancrazio,

just want to congratulate you on your efforts to fruit a mango on Europe and on an even higher latitude than me here in Portugal... there seems to be more fruit-nuts trying this on USA than here on Europe... so we Europeans should get united.

Just want to report that my experience is not very positive so far... I did managed to have fruits on a mango planted on my GH but they were very deformed... maybe it's a secondary cold effect... but fortunately the taste was not affected and as I don't intend to sell the fruits so it was no big issue at the end... just keep trying!








CTMIAMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1612
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2013, 06:22:40 PM »
Pancrazio welcome  to the boundary pushing club. You will be making a great contribution to the world of mango.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

DuncanYoung

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
  • Eating Edward Mangos for over 65 years!
    • USA, Palm Valley, Florida, Zone 9a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2013, 09:35:47 PM »
Boron deficiency is said to be a possible cause of malformed fruit.

MangoFang

  • Palm Springs, CA, Zone 9B
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Palm Springs, CA
    • Riverside, Palm Springs/CA, 92264,9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2013, 11:47:39 PM »
Miguel - I get that same kind of thing happening with my papaya - little arms and appendages
sometimes popping out!

But I wouldn't say that's a negative - especially if they taste great!  As CTMiami says, it might
be some mineral deficiency at that's easily fixed.  I'd say you're doing just fine........

What kind of mango by the way?


Gary

puglvr1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
    • USA, Central, FL xxxxx, Zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2013, 11:54:11 AM »
Hi Pan! The Mango tree looks great from this angle...I sure hope your blooms take it all the way to mature fruits. Maybe you will have a warm fall and it will be enough to ripen the mangoes...Best of luck!!   :)

Miguel, those are some interesting shaped mangoes,lol...but as long as the taste is great. NO problem right!!


Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2013, 04:42:48 PM »
Hurray, Pan!

Was wondering when you'd report on the mango experiment.  What did you
mean by a "stem" problem - don't know if I remember you had one......

Oh, Gary, i had an horrible spring. I was really desperate about seeing the flower opening. I got a nice timing on the flowers in April, i removed my first bloom, the everything went bad. Cold, rain, wind. By the end of my i had to rebuild all my structure like in the middle of winter. I still suspect that a lot of flowers died because the cold nights, we had many of them in 50F with days with just 62F. Not the best temperature for mango pollination.
Wheat you say on mangoes ripening on counter gives me hope. I have till the mid of october, after that fruit will rot on tree i guess.

buonasera Pancrazio,

just want to congratulate you on your efforts to fruit a mango on Europe and on an even higher latitude than me here in Portugal... there seems to be more fruit-nuts trying this on USA than here on Europe... so we Europeans should get united.

Yeah, Miguel, you are right. Definitively we don't  have as much fruit-nuts as in US but we are nuts in our own right. :D
However, i hope that on the long run some more european guys will join us in tropical fruit growing.
Your result however are awesome: i would love to have had the same results as yours. I'm hoping for this year, but we will see.
To my experience, such kind of malformations appears when the flowers emerge in an environment wich is too cold. My first bloom showed a lot of such kind of embrios i didn't expect they were able to develop in full sized fruit, so since this year, i started to remove my first bloom on the 10th of April, to induce a second bloom. The second bloom is always without any malformed fruit (but the second bloom is also a little smaller).
However what cultivar are yours?

Pancrazio welcome  to the boundary pushing club. You will be making a great contribution to the world of mango.

Ahaha, i hope so! So far my only hope is to enjoy my own home grown mango fruit. :)

Hi Pan! The Mango tree looks great from this angle...I sure hope your blooms take it all the way to mature fruits. Maybe you will have a warm fall and it will be enough to ripen the mangoes...Best of luck!!   :)

I'm hoping, Nancy. Your mangoes are also sizing up nicely. I hope they will be big enough soon to avoid any frost damage... we know the fear of the winter! :)
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Miguel.pt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
    • Portugal, Northwest, climate 9a/9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »
Hello Pancrazio

My fruits were from a grafted Osteen I think... but the following winter all the grafted part of the tree died from cold even inside the GH... now I'm trying again with the cultivar Carabao because I found a brazilian study report on internet were they concluded that Carabao was the most resistant of all to low temperatures....

Just google for "MANGO ROOTSTOCK RESISTANCE TO LOW TEMPERATURES" and you will find this brazilian report.

all the best for you and your mango tree.
Miguel

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1693
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2013, 12:32:02 AM »
I'm amazed about what you're doing, and I'm certain that you will succeed, all the best to you.
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

Bananimal

  • Dan the Bananaman
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
    • Port St Lucie, Fl zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2013, 09:07:40 PM »
Pan ----- you will be glad you chose the Glenn.  It is the only one of my 4 mango cultivars that fruited well in spite of the long cool spring we had here in So FL.  This one can stand odd weather patterns and still produce.  Very good flavor.  I still lost about half of the crop to the enormous opussum that I eventually caught with a trap.  His tail alone was 18 inches long!

Here is a pic of one I had for breakfast - not the opossum.  Excellent texture and favor!
Best of luck getting yours to fruit.


Dan

cgps

  • general fruticulture
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
  • really, i am new always
    • san jose of cúcuta, north of santander, Colombia,tropical dry weather,max 38min18, 40%RH
    • View Profile
    • agroengineer in progress
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2013, 11:09:25 PM »
amazing experiment, this is for a patent eh?

well, some that you should know is the mangos are very exigent in heat, always that in you greenhouse have a constant temperature of 20-25 degrees celsius in the day, just  try conserve the heat in the winter although be a temp. of 17 degrees, is the min. for the fructification in this plant .

when grow more of 3 meters, what you doing?


Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2013, 08:02:15 AM »
now I'm trying again with the cultivar Carabao because I found a brazilian study report on internet were they concluded that Carabao was the most resistant of all to low temperatures....

Just google for "MANGO ROOTSTOCK RESISTANCE TO LOW TEMPERATURES" and you will find this brazilian report.


Hey Miguel,
I never have had any mango die completely in my greenhouse but i noticed that the main issue with overwintering them in a steadily cold environment is the cambium dieback. So far i haven't been able to find a rule about it but my initial observation seem to suggest that the zones of the stem which don't receive direct solar heat are more subject to cambium dieback. Of course the plant doesn't die immediatly but it is pretty much condemned. I have a Mun girdled this way (that I'm waiting to graft on a healty rootstock). It was grafted on a gomera-3 clone so apparently even selected clones don't solve this issue; but indeed it may be just some pathogen that i haven't identified yet. I have a cold, damp envinronment; actually I'm surprised that some of my plant are able to make trough winter.

Pan ----- you will be glad you chose the Glenn.  It is the only one of my 4 mango cultivars that fruited well in spite of the long cool spring we had here in So FL.  This one can stand odd weather patterns and still produce.  Very good flavor.  I still lost about half of the crop to the enormous opussum that I eventually caught with a trap.  His tail alone was 18 inches long!

You know, Dan, when you Floridians say "long cool spring" i'm always a bit suspicious.  ;D I'm not sure we mean the same thing. ;)
I hope however you are right. On my plant some little mangoes are gaining some size right now (they are still pea size, but i'm optimistic).
I choosed a Glenn also because it get watered flavour when it rains too much. This seems great for a mediterranean climate where you don't get rain at all in summer. Basically you get all the advantages of the Glenn cultivar without its main downside. I hope for the best.
(the fact that i was able to get a named glenn in europe has had a role too)
Now, i will start my fight with the critters too. Those fruit seems to have to withstand all the problems i mango can get before they can mature; first we have had a cold spring, then humidity and antrachnose, then caterpillars. Now i'm waiting for hail, mouses, sun scorches. I'm pretty sure i'll see also that before the end of the summer.

Your mango seems awesome. With a breakfast like that i wouldn't miss my cappuccino for sure!

amazing experiment, this is for a patent eh?

well, some that you should know is the mangos are very exigent in heat, always that in you greenhouse have a constant temperature of 20-25 degrees celsius in the day, just  try conserve the heat in the winter although be a temp. of 17 degrees, is the min. for the fructification in this plant .

when grow more of 3 meters, what you doing?

Ehehe, no patent, no, it's just a bunch of old ideas putted altogether (plant covering, thermal mass, solar greenhouses, and so on).
Mangoes are exigent in heat but they manage to survive to my winter. However, i think they would prefer some stronger temperature fluctuation during winter, but i'm unable to provide them.
During summer we have 3 months with decent temperatures (im speaking of daily max between 28-35C/82-95F) so my plant usually don't complains during summer. It should be enough to ripe some fruit, but i miss the definitive proof.

Regarding what it will happen i get too much success with my project (i mean my mango reaching 3 meters) i don't worry about that yet. I would hard prune it back to original size; i don't see that as a problem. :)
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2013, 06:55:54 PM »
A little spinoff of this thread goes here, where I opened a tread to discuss the problems the mango is experiencing after 3 years of growth in ground, and asked for suggestion about substituing it. I add this message just for future people surfing this topic.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2014, 06:11:07 PM »
This topic has become somewhat a diary for me, i hope it won't upset anyone if I'll add some updates. Maybe someday someone can find it useful.
In brief, I'm sailing through my third year with my mango planted in my backyard. Last summer it did grow beautifully


but i was unable to have it to set some fruit. The spring was horrible, and i got pretty cold till the second half of June.

This year it has flowered once more, i still have the bark problems which I'm trying to cure with heavy copper applications. We got a pretty hot winter, and the plant LIKED it, it showed way less malformed flower panicles.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:18:03 AM by Pancrazio »
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

jbaqai

  • JoJi
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
    • Norhter California, Bay Area, 9B
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2014, 07:06:40 PM »
No not all
Actually it's good to see the update

Tree looks really nice and strong now , hopefully it will fruit for you

Did last year it hold any fruit ?

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1693
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2014, 08:48:53 PM »
That tree looks really healthy, nice going. If the tree is from seed it probably will take 2-3 more years to fruit. If it's grafted, it should produce some fruit in a year or two. But, considering that it's in Italy, this is new territory for me and it should be interesting to see when it will produce fruit.
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

MangoFang

  • Palm Springs, CA, Zone 9B
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Palm Springs, CA
    • Riverside, Palm Springs/CA, 92264,9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2014, 11:21:45 PM »
PAN!

The Glenn tree looks GREAT!  Yeah, getting a few mangoes would be great and I think
you still have a good chance to do that....Keep doin' what you're doin'.....we're all
rooting for you!!!!!!

ANd keep reporting how things are going......

Gary

Pancrazio

  • Off Tropic
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
  • Florence, Italy, USDA 8
    • Growing fruits in Florence, and Pratovecchio, Italy
    • View Profile
    • FruttAma.it
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2014, 07:30:27 AM »
Hey Gary,
I'm trying to do my best but for sure is taking quite some time! Every spring I start thinking "well maybe this is the year!" but till now i have always been proved wrong. Let's see what future bring this years. 

My tree is a grafted Glenn, so it should be about to bear. I'm holding my breath!
Last year it didn't bring any fruit, but i'm assuming that happened because we got a very cold spring, i'm willing to se what will happen this year.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade to get the following mango scions: Florigon/Rosa/Francis Hargrave. Avocado: Mexicola. Contact me in PM if interested.

Vlk

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • Czech Republic
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2014, 11:50:30 AM »
Amazing work Pancrazio, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you! :-)
Where do you have your mango planted - in Florence? :-)
Durian lover and graphic designer

Vlk

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • Czech Republic
    • View Profile
Re: Mango in central Italy: an experiment.
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2014, 11:50:52 AM »
x
Durian lover and graphic designer

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers