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Author Topic: Will it or wonít it.  (Read 523 times)

Hana321

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Will it or wonít it.
« on: January 12, 2020, 02:59:47 PM »
So I have posted pictures of this Mango tree on here before and I have been told that the tree will live it is just stressed. I am becoming increasingly skeptical. Backstory here is that I bought this tree from a nursery in Florida. It was shipped here along with two other mango trees. The other 2 mango trees are in peak condition, and are doing very well. This one started to droop almost immediately and then the leaves started to dry up and die off. Now I have a very expensive stick in the ground. I have consulted the nursery and they keep telling me the tree is stressed, itíll be fine. However, I have been watching it, it it seems to be deteriorating further. There is an expanding brown zone coming down from the crown, and perhaps more concerning the trunk itself looks shriveled and dried out. It also feels dry to the touch. I took some pics that donít really show what I mean to the fullest extent. The question of the day is do I continue to see what the tree does or doI call it quits and replace the tree? The nursery I purchased this tree from is rather costly to ship plants in from and it is likely I will not use them again to replace the tree. I would have to spend about 300 dollars to purchase the tree from them and have it sent to me. With no guarantee that itís successor will survive the shipment. It is really a sad thing for me since I canít find this variety of Mango anywhere else. I am on a limited time scale in my area because it gets so hot so fast. Pretty much after March I canít ship anything here because the heat stress in combination with stress from shipping kills everything. The trees need time to metabolize the dramatic shift in climate to have a chance. So I have a small window to get any new trees here.


















murahilin

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 03:17:13 PM »
It doesn't look good. Which nursery and what variety?

Hana321

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 03:30:14 PM »
It is an Imam Pasand from Top Tropicals in Fort Myers. I have used them many times for many species of tropicals including numerous other Mango trees, and this is the first time I have had an issue. This will be the 6th mango tree I purchased from them and the only one that has ever done anything like this

simon_grow

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2020, 05:30:24 PM »
Your tree has what I call ďBlack DeathĒ. That dark brown to black colored area is where the infection probably started. The Black Death is a generic term I use for mango trees that show the symptoms your tree has.

Here in California, usually beginning around Winter time, our mango trees often get this type of brown to black lesion that progressively gets larger. Dieback is often associated with these dark lesions. Often times, you will see a hole in the center of the dark area which may or may not exude liquid.

Some mango varieties like Lemon Zest are more prone to this affliction but Iíve seen it happen to many different varieties. I believe it is an advantageous fungal infection that gains entry through broken skin, mechanical injuries, etc...

It may be Lasiodiplodia Theobromae or botryosphaeria ribis or even Anthracnose or any combination of these or other mango diseases.

Your tree looks really far gone and even if weíre still alive, it looks so sickly that I would personally prefer to start with a new tree. The vascular tissue, especially the upper portion of your tree, looks slightly wrinkly from what I can see.

I would cut off the top infected portion of the tree in hopes that there is disease free wood lower down the main trunk but above the graft line. If you can give it bottom heat around 80F and some artificial lighting or put it in a greenhouse, you may get lucky with new growth.

For growers in California, I would recommend planting random mango seeds in your yard and then let them grow big before top working them. I know many people donít know how to graft but this is another good reason to learn.

Iím sure sellers like Squam256 probably have scions of Imam Passand in their collections so you can probably order scions from him if you decide to go this route.

Simon

Hana321

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 06:10:37 PM »
I am certainly willing to learn to graft, though I donít currently possess such skill. I can certainly do research on that. There is some green at the base, and I can try and cut the top of the tree off, below the blackened area. I am not feeling really positive that the tree will make any kind of comeback. I certainly hope for that outcome, but the tree has been deteriorating steadily despite assurances that this was simply shipping stress. I have an eye on another tree. It isnít the same kind, but it is another variety that I thought I might like. Thanks for the info.

simon_grow

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 06:24:47 PM »
I forgot to mention that it could also be Phomopsis.

Increasing Silica during the growing season may help prevent some symptoms and an integrated pest management system should be used to decrease the chances of this happening again.

Simon

Tommyng

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2020, 08:59:57 PM »
It doesnít look good so it wouldnít hurt if you dug that tree up, get some good potting soil then place it in a shady area and see if it can remedy itself. Inspect the roots too.
Donít rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

Hana321

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2020, 09:37:49 PM »
That is true. I cut the top part off a bit ago, and it seemed to be pretty dried out. The portion I took off snapped in half. Not even a trace of moisture in there. I have to go back to work for five days starting tomorrow, but I can dig it out next weekend. Assuming that it doesnít look completely dead by then.

OCchris1

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 02:05:12 AM »
Hi, Ive had that problem in the past and I just cut it back to to the rootstock. That tree will eventually succumb to the disease for sure. Cut, wrap if possible, and graft in the late spring/early summer.
-Chris

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 05:10:06 AM »
Disease is obviously the never ending problem with industrial grown mangos.  Itís what keeps the petro. chemical cos. in business and threads like this so active.  Industrial grown plants grown in what is toxic dead soil cannot fight plant pathogens and forces the grower to look for a new chemical quick fix that never fixes the problem.  Healthy microbial rich living soil can fight plant pathogens and help your plant deal with heat, pest and water stress.   The diseases are in the plants when they are bought from the grower they are just masked with systemic fungicides. Industrial grown Mangos do not cycle nutrients or communicate with soil life.  Mangos respond almost instantly to healthy soil, itís how they were grown in India for thousands of years without problems.  Spraying the potted mango tree after purchase with any or all of the following biological, em1, a quality finished compost tea, worm casting tea or all will help put the destroyed microbial life back into your soil which will help your tree combat pathogens and stressors. Healthy soil can combat the disease.  Healthy trees cycle their own nutrients naturally.  Doubling down on insecticides is more of the same soil/life killing chemicals that does more damage too soil and plant health.  The healthy soil life can combat pathogens that are destroying your tree and ensure your trees continued health. Chemically grown trees are not producing the phytonutrients you and your plants need for optimum health.  Iím more than kinda surprised intelligent people cannot connect soil health too plant health.  You can only accomplish soil health thru organic practices.  Soil health is plant health.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:11:16 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

pineislander

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 06:14:05 PM »
Disease is obviously the never ending problem with industrial grown mangos.  Itís what keeps the petro. chemical cos. in business and threads like this so active.  Industrial grown plants grown in what is toxic dead soil cannot fight plant pathogens and forces the grower to look for a new chemical quick fix that never fixes the problem. 
Not necessarily a care problem the mountains of southern California look to have a winter climate which would be hard on mango. Months of cold nights into the forties coinciding with the wettest season seems like a challenge.
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/la-quinta_united-states-of-america_5364079

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2020, 06:30:07 PM »
Take simons advice and learn to graft Brother. Life will be a lot easier.

Your tree is a goner.

Florida rootstock (Turpentine) is a real hit and miss usually, miss.

For Best Results Mangos also like sandy soil with high permeability. If your soil is heavy (Clay) you will need to mix in 30% pumice to help break it up and give your trees a better chance.

Johnny

Hana321

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2020, 06:50:48 PM »
I have always had very high success rate here with Mangoes. With temperatures in the summer months over 100 degrees and long growing seasons, my other mango trees thrive here, and lots of other people have them here too. As for this sad tree, I agree with the possibility of a pre existing infection that was brought out during the stress of shipping. I have 7 other mangoes that are all very alive and producing. For those in San Diego areas, the milder climate and wetter weather can be an impairment, but we are fortunate here that most tropicals can adapt and thrive here. I will look into grafting. For now, I suppose I will look into alternate trees to replace this seemingly dead tree. Any ideas for a good Mango. I already do have an unknown variety that might be Valencia Pride, Carrie, Honey Kiss, Alampur Baneshan, Irwin, Ice Cream, Cotton Candy and Coconut Cream.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:52:40 PM by Hana321 »

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2020, 08:00:28 PM »
High heat in the summer does help but long term success has yet to be determined and you have a rootstock that is adapted to Florida, not California.

You need 8-10 years of growing experience to determine success at your location. You're too green to claim victory yet Brother.

Take Simon's advice and grow seedling and use them as rootstock.

Learning to Graft opens a wide range of new possibilities. Conversely not being able to grade severely limits your success and options.

Start to learn to graft with Apples, they are the easiest. Mangos are the Hardest relatively but the skill can be acquired in time.

Johnny

Hana321

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 08:41:20 PM »
Well I will have to try the grafting game. It is sad to think my mangoes may not last. They seem to be prevalent here though. And my oldest Florida bought mango has been here for about 8-9 years now. I am leery to deal with apples because I know they struggle here. I have a few myself and while they have lived, they are kinda bizarre. Poor quality fruit. Incomplete dormancy cycles. I struggle with cold weather species here. The ones that do best are the temperates like jujube and pomegranate and citrus of course and a vast majority of tropicals. We even have a commercial farm of a Keitt mangoes in Coachella area.

Oolie

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Re: Will it or wonít it.
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2020, 12:04:56 AM »
Mango will do fine for you as your older tree has. I would keep at it, and not think too dearly of the loss. The supplier you ordered from has a low hit-rate as far as labeling accuracy is concerned (at least from a cursory search of these boards), and Imam Passand and Alampur Baneshan are considered to be similar enough to be identical, at least the ones in the US are treated as the same tree.

With your low chill and intense heat, I would think that White Sapote would do well for you.

 

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