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Author Topic: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers  (Read 1085 times)

Frog Valley Farm

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eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« on: January 31, 2020, 05:00:59 PM »
Great talk on why there is no need for synthetic fertilizers.🐸

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEMNhUP-G5Y
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 06:58:28 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

palmcity

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 08:13:42 PM »
Loooong 58+ minutes. I scanned through it... Try not to focus on the Quaker Oats Icon... lol....

My first question was who is the speaker? On internet I found: http://kris-systems.com/about-kris

She does mention that she does not like to argue as many other scientist believe in a fertilization program to prevent depletion with farming.

She does mention that plants take up cooper, phosphorus, etc through fungi hyphae associations.

I scanned through it and I think I got that she believes early innoculation of fungi in the early plants growth without inorganic fertilizers is essential in her theory to force the plants roots to increase the association with the hyphae. ..... ...

I hope it works for you guys.  ;)  ........... I would love to not have to buy more fertilzers, minerals, and other supplements....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait, I'm at the very end an the tone has changed from scientific toooooo.... sounds like an info commercial "And to grow healthy plants, We must first think in a different way about agriculture. About empowering LIFE, instead of SUPPRESSING LIFE, About regeneration VS. degeneration.... To Achieve this we formulate and SELL PRODUCTS to produce higher quality yield with LESS RISK of CROP FAILURE... In short we help growers Make More Money... With LESS RISK... " etc. etc. etc. call AEA consultants... lol...

All of a sudden I find I'm a louse SUPPRESSING Life.... Oh well, I guess I won't buy any of the info commercial....
LESS RISK of CROP FAILURE per info commercial.... lol... I would like to see the proof vs. fertilization & watering although I seldom water....
MAKE MORE MONEY... sounds like a great idea for a stock broker/investment advisor to proclaim.....

In other words, I did not care for the ending info commercial & sell  tactics.... lol....

SeaWalnut

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 08:58:03 PM »
Hey Palmcity,look at this.This genius approach about killingry vs livingry works .
This wisdom got lost in time as you now have rednecks catching snakes and killing iguanas for fun claiming they are ecologists.
Meanwhile laje Okechobee,lake Erie and manny more lakes and even the seaside in Florida got killed by eutrophisation because only the invasive asian carp( chinese silver carp) could save them and that doesnt fit your political agenda.
It backfired.
In Australia they are concerned the most about invasive animals and would not accept the chinese carp to clean their sewage water wich in turn The Great Barrier Reef died from too much phosphorus ( from the sewage)= biggest ecological catastrophe made by humans.
As for the monney part ,comercial like part,its obvious that somme people that teach you right, need to make monney somehow to survive.
They sell you probably mycorrhyza supplements wich its fine if it comes with good instructions and at a fair price.

https://youtu.be/cXsOdjlCSYw
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 09:01:21 PM by SeaWalnut »

palmcity

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 09:14:04 PM »
Hey Palmcity,look at this.This genius approach about killingry vs livingry works .
This wisdom got lost in time as you now have rednecks catching snakes and killing iguanas for fun claiming they are ecologists.
Meanwhile laje Okechobee,lake Erie and manny more lakes and even the seaside in Florida got killed by eutrophisation because only the invasive asian carp( chinese silver carp) could save them and that doesnt fit your political agenda.
It backfired.
In Australia they are concerned the most about invasive animals and would not accept the chinese carp to clean their sewage water wich in turn The Great Barrier Reef died from too much phosphorus ( from the sewage)= biggest ecological catastrophe made by humans.
As for the monney part ,comercial like part,its obvious that somme people that teach you right, need to make monney somehow to survive.
They sell you probably mycorrhyza supplements wich its fine if it comes with good instructions and at a fair price.

https://youtu.be/cXsOdjlCSYw

IMO the video was one of the least liked videos I have endured to listen to. Old material in the info commercial. A long, slow drawn out explanation. Nothing new to me except her belief that early plant innoculation with mycorrhyza is essential and her opinion you get good root to hyphae associaltion only if you avoid inorganic fertilizers (at least that seems to be her opinion of what parts I listened too).....

In my opinion, the ending info commercial exclamations weakened the ability to believe the success vs. practices such as farming with organic & inorganic combinations.

I sincerely hope that more people will decrease the South Florida population of iguana and pythons. Just my opinion lol.... It makes no difference to me if redneck, black neck, yellow neck, or white necks rid the invasive species... lol...


SeaWalnut

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 09:32:32 PM »
Mycorhizae its good.Im using it,both ,the natural wild one and i also bought supplements.
It is expensive compared to otther fertilisers but you use just a little and could last forever.
I dont think chemical fertiliser would affect it too much unless they interfere with the ph of the soil but thats usually a mild problem.
Could be rhat somme chemical fertiliser have more than just fertiliser in them .They could also have antifungic substances like copper that kill the mycorrhiza.
Or that the plant wich is fed by rapid absorbtion fertiliser ,then it will reject the mycorrhiza because it doesnt needs it as it has available food.
Mycorrhiza dies then if the plant ends the resources it will wish to have the fungi to help her but their long gone so she starts to struggle.
Similar to the nitrogen fixing plants.Feed them nitrogen and they wont grow nitrogen fixing bacteria .

pineislander

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2020, 08:00:28 AM »
My personal goal is to not use synthetic fertilizers but that doesn't mean fertilizers causes harm or prevents plants from having microbial or fungal relationships. Take soybeans for example there is scientific proof that even farms using ordinary fertilizers, herbicides and fungicides still see nitrogen fixation which can be measured.

In soybean the protein content of the seed is directly related to nitrogen, it takes "x" amount of nitrogen to make "x" amount of seed. It is possible to determine the amount of nitrogen in soil and the amount supplied by nodulation. As higher yielding soybean varieties have been bred they found that there is a limit to the capacity of nodulation and what is previously in the soil such that the "x" amount of seed the plant can produce cannot be met by either soil nitrogen or nodulation combined. here is the research:
https://www.pioneer.com/us/agronomy/nitrogen_fertilizer_soybean.html#TheChallengeofApplyingNFertilizertoSoybean_6

shot

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2020, 09:34:34 AM »
Florida soils are geologically lacking sufficient essential nutrients in the soil profile for some crops.Their for outside outside sources are required whether synthetic or organic.I'm all for improving soil ,but rhizosphere can't supply what's not in the geology of the soil if you believe other that's religion!

nattyfroootz

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 10:41:54 AM »
I feel like there should be a disclaimer attached to seawalnuts "eutrophisation" posts. Unsupported argument by internet dude, beware!

spaugh

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 11:04:13 AM »
We just need to replace trump with seawalnut so he can make our lakes great again.
Brad Spaugh

roblack

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 12:04:30 PM »
lol! Might be worth taking a chance on.

Interesting info, definitely some new stuff to me. Time to teach my plants to stop begging for food.

nattyfroootz

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 12:54:25 PM »
To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if seawalnut is actually a silvercarp

palmcity

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 01:43:05 PM »
To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if seawalnut is actually a silvercarp
lol.... also to spaugh's post... lol...

I was wondering how the carp "jumped" into this conversation about eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers.... thanks for the possible insight.... lol....

In all honesty, I appreciate SeaWalnut's different point of view on many subjects.... But, it was a surprise when he once again mentioned carp in this thread... lol.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 02:08:37 PM by palmcity »

palmcity

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 01:54:43 PM »
We just need to replace trump with seawalnut so he can make our lakes great again.
lol... speaking of "Great" I thought you would pick the other candidate:
Great talk on why there is no need for synthetic fertilizers.🐸

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEMNhUP-G5Y

But, As I said, I do appreciate everyones different opinion, regardless of how different to mine... lol
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 02:15:05 PM by palmcity »

SeaWalnut

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2020, 05:21:13 PM »
The chinese silver carp teached manny the phosphorus cycle in nature .
It is related to farming as we do use phosphorus fertilisers.
I admit i discus too much about them and its probably because of somme debates with the biggest scientists on the issue ,in wich i won but i got excluded from the club forever.
I trolled the guys and i said im a plumber,got with a polyphosphate water filter to explain the phosphorus and calcium and ive used Wikipedia as reference( meant to insult)= trolling because i am not such highest level scientist like them but i cornered them well.

The ideas of Buckminster Fuller about killingry and livingry i seen them as a realiable wisdom,a soird of ,,divine justice,,.
I  didnt got into politics altough i could get in verry easy in the enviromental friendly ( clueless people and dumb ,but at least they are willing to learn ),Soros suported ,political spectrum wich i have ties with them sometimes but i never got involved more than regular people they meet on the street for first time protesting against somme huntings ,fracking and gold mining with cyanide.
Politics are not for me otther than to protest ( peacefully,you dont see me throwing Molotov coctails )and to go to vote.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 05:43:05 PM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 05:27:28 PM »
I feel like there should be a disclaimer attached to seawalnuts "eutrophisation" posts. Unsupported argument by internet dude, beware!
Napoleon spoke real bad french and he was the emperor of France ,its not big deal.Excuse my typing mistake  :D

JoeP450

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2020, 06:22:26 PM »
Few things to think about.

I have been to Ericís (Frog Valley) farm and the concept of seeing is believing, the plants are lush and healthy. I learned a lot from my visit, and enough to question what I was doing in my own yard and why?

I think most, and I assume, if not all of us are growing a mix of plants most that are nonnative to the US, and to boot we are growing them in our yards which are mostly dredged compacted sand from a man made lake in a planned neighborhood! There are thousands of different bacteria and fungi. When growing a tree that normally grows in the rainforest of Brazil here in Fl for example, I think itís incorrect to assume its in its optimal environment regardless the method used. The plant may appear healthy and thriving, but can we assume that the soil here in Fl grown by any means is a recreation of the native bacterial and fungal microbiome of a Brazilian rain Forrest? That is a giant leap. Plants can adapt and also their success is due to other factors than just the soil.

In my practice, I have stopped buying synthetic NPK because my trees donít look any different than Ericís who isnít using synthetic NPK, so I have to ask why am I wasting my money? Why am I risking salt burn? What is the environmental impact of runoff into the pond behind my house? I have started composting organic household food scraps yard and tree clippings and instead of throwing them out on the curb, I throw them at the base of certain trees like jackfruit/lychee/avocado which like mulch, this is totally free and feeds the tree plus doesnít add to the landfill.

The organic management of specific pests, and specific nutritional deficiencies are tricky questions to answer when these problems arise. Im looking forward to reading more ideas on these in the future. I appreciate all opinions as I donít claim to know the best way to grow any tree and am willing to try new methods.

-Joe



 

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2020, 05:44:54 AM »
Here is another video on microbial farming some of you might find informative.  Most soil experts are in agreement now that all regions around the world have all the minerals needed to grow food. This area in Florida could not be the most biodiverse spot in North America if it was nutrient deficient.  It is the soil microbiology that unlocks to nutrients for plant uptake.  As more knowledge is gained about the soil microbes the out of date conventional farming practices are being proven wrong.  It is those out of date farming practices that are killing diversity, destroying our health, destroying Florida and polluting our planet.  Whether you believe this or not the future of farming is soil microbiology and it starts with soil health.  We are one living system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_7DBTu1NRM
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 06:54:42 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

pineislander

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 07:28:52 AM »
Florida soils are geologically lacking sufficient essential nutrients in the soil profile for some crops.Their for outside outside sources are required whether synthetic or organic. I'm all for improving soil ,but rhizosphere can't supply what's not in the geology of the soil if you believe other that's religion!
Some years ago I was looking at how the Amazon gets many minerals from Sahara dust and I know we see it too.
Otherwise, especially here along the coast, we do get a good dose of sea minerals which must be helping us without even trying. I notice that the Advancing Eco Agriculture folks do not use synthetic fertilizers yet produce and sell sea mineral kelp and crab/shrimp/fish products. Studies of Tampa Bay found that nearly 50% of the nitrogen entering the bay came from wet and dry atmospheric deposition, and ran into the thousands of tons nitrogen per year, some from natural sources some from manmade pollution, fires, lightning, ocean and dust. Interesting fact these constitute a hand-off foliar feed and then fall to our soils.

palmcity

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Re: eliminating The need for synthetic fertilizers
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 08:51:27 PM »
Here is another video on microbial farming some of you might find informative.... the future of farming is soil microbiology and it starts with soil health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_7DBTu1NRM
IMO this was a very interesting video and worth the time to watch.

IMO Nicole Masters is not an extremist of organic farming techniques and is willing to bend and homogenize typical farming practices with inorganic & organic additives to stimulate preferred bacteria, fungi, worms, etc. over growing seasons without going "cold turkey" to all organic and no pesticides or herbicides at least when working with the Canadians in the video.

Video 44:03 A list of additives including gypsum, boron, zinc, copper, glyphosate, etc. for wheat crop.
video 44:58 More charts
video 50:44 Nicole Masters states that wheat issues in her 3rd yr. of consulting may have been due to removing some conventional farming practices too fast (did not state which but may have been NPK amts. herbicide usege/etc.)

A lot of good thoughts & more research into worm extracts etc. will be needed in my future. I did enjoy the field to field comparisons in the second half of video.

I thought the first 15 minutes to be questionable on some points. The idea that getting cover crops and grasses to grow on your property would cause a spring to small river to flow off your property was "hard to believe". 

Overall, it was enlightening & interesting about the bacteria & fungi relationships to plants. I will need to research more into soil health with the attempt to eventually use less fertilizers & herbicides. Good video...


 

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