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Author Topic: Two pawpaws in the same hole?  (Read 360 times)

Triloba Tracker

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Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« on: March 04, 2020, 11:18:58 AM »
I have plotted 3 spots in my orchard for additional pawpaws, and i think this will be (sadly) all I can reasonably fit in. It will bring me to 33 trees.

But anyway - I'm considering planting 2 seedlings in the same hole in order to maximize number of unique trees.

Does anyone have experience with this or have any thoughts?

I'm not terribly concerned if, for example, the yield will be lower. Just kind of curious for folks' input.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2020, 12:13:37 PM »
Better plant them as much as you can away from each otther ,even if its just a meter away.
They should do fine because they dont mind shade in case one is shadowing another and in nature they grow close from suckers also.
Just not in the same hole because the roots will fight and strangle one another.

If they have enough light ,sater and you feed them,then its not a problem if they are too cloose.
There are comercial apple plantations with trees planted only 50 cm away from each otther and ive planted Paulownia trees( big trees) just 2 meters away from each otther and they grow from zero to 4 meters tall in the first year.

TJ_westPA

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2020, 03:32:45 PM »
I haven't tried it myself but, on the growingfruit forum, tjasko told me that Jerry Lehman used to recommend putting two seedlings in the same hole for better pollination. Here's a quote from him: "Jerry Lehman recommends planting 2 pawpaws right in the same hole for maximum pollination. He says he gets much more fruit set that way, which is kind of surprising when you consider that he already has rows of them 5 feet apart."

Here's tjasko's report (with lots of pictures) on Jerry Lehman's orchard from 2017. You can see how close those trees are to each other & there's at least 1 pic where you can see what looks 2 pawpaws that were planted in the same hole. 
https://growingfruit.org/t/virtual-tour-of-jerry-lehmans-orchard/10616

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2020, 04:43:43 PM »
Wow, that's a pretty ringing endorsement coming from the great Jerry Lehman. thanks for sharing that.

Not to argue with SeaWalnut, but my gut tells me there wouldn't be problems with the roots. I even read somewhere about cooperation of roots. The clonal nature of pawpaws makes me think they would be good candidates.

I have 30 pawpaws already; i should probably stop being so paranoid and just try this  ;D


shiro

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2020, 07:00:44 PM »
Indeed there can be a competition at the root level if the plants are planted in the same hole.

But this is not quite true, as it can happen that two trees planted in the same hole will naturally graft together. And exchange nutrients without necessarily harming the other.
This is how some trees become monstrous trees, explained Professor Lucien Daniel in his book (study on grafting).

Then it is also necessary to know that the nature of the soil can allow this in certain cases as with clay soils where the roots develop less but have a soil that retains nutrients better.
So the roots don't need to develop much.

As opposed to sand soil which allows the roots to develop more easily but retains less nutrients.
Or the roots develop more to search for nutrients.

TJ_westPA

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2020, 08:29:06 AM »
I say go for it. It gives you more trunks to work with if you plan on grafting, more diverstiy, and better pollination. Pawpaws naturally grow really close to each other in the wild and form intermixed root systems, so I don't think competition among the trees will be an issue. Pawpaws are probably one of the better trees to do that with.

Check out this article about a pawpaw orchard in Sweden. Nearly 100 trees, all planted at 1 meter or less apart. I'm sure better spacing would be more ideal for a productive orchard but, with limited space, this certainly looks like it can work out just fine. I love the look of such a dense planting of pawpaw trees like that. Almost like a jungle!

https://xn--skogstrdgrden-hfbr.xn--stjrnsund-x2a.nu/ett-besok-till-nordens-storsta-asimina-odling/?lang=en

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2020, 09:28:35 PM »
Wow, that place looks like heaven! Call me crazy, but the look of pawpaw trees is just so attractive to me.

Yeah, I'm sure it would be fine to plant a couple close together.  I may not do them right next to each other - a friend suggested more like a foot apart.

I don't know that I would do a mass planting very close together out of concern for fungal issues. I already have fungal problems with my small trees spaced 6 feet....

containerman

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 10:22:12 PM »
Check out this from Dave Wilson Nursery - Back yard orchard culture where you can plant four trees together in the same hole


https://www.davewilson.com/home-gardens/backyard-orchard-culture

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2020, 04:40:01 PM »
Check out this from Dave Wilson Nursery - Back yard orchard culture where you can plant four trees together in the same hole


https://www.davewilson.com/home-gardens/backyard-orchard-culture

I've never seen that before, so thanks for sharing it.  My initial reaction is that's way too intensive/extreme of an approach for my sensibilities and personality.

Triphal

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Re: Two pawpaws in the same hole?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2020, 06:53:52 PM »
Hi. About 10 years ago we planted 3 trees together in a 10 x 4 feet 2 feet deep hole. 1st and the 2nd tree was planted less than 2 feet away and the 3rd was 4 feet away from the 2nd. Each tree is a grafted nursery plant. We have been getting loads of fruits, may be over a thousand or more for the past 5 years or so. I have previously sent some photographs to a friend and TFF member in Brazil. We protected the plants from direct sunlight for about 3 years or so.
We keep it well mulched. Water bi-monthly in dry periods and fertilize since year 4 using initially heavy compost and followed next year by a pound of 10-10-10 per tree in spring. Keep the soil acidic by using unused left over beer, fruit juices those are stale including 4 year old 'suco de caju' concentrate lying in the garage!

 

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