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Author Topic: Important question on grafting annonas  (Read 1050 times)

Orkine

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Important question on grafting annonas
« on: March 29, 2020, 10:12:43 AM »
I have done many cycles of annona grafting with results that are not worth writing hoe about.  This spring though has been outstanding for me (sure average for many folks) and I'd like to keep it taht way, so I am asking for help on a few things.

First, when do you untie the union?  I didn't have the real buddytape so I used a grafting tape I got on Amazon, less stretchy and doubled over so it could be tied snug.  I am concerned that it will girdle my graft if I don't cut it off or untie it.  I have had some grafts on for almost a month now and they have pushed, some for less and they have also pushed.  One or two gave the headfake of a push then stalled.  My question is how long should I leave the union tied?

Second, it has been unusually dry in my region and with new growth on the grafts should I be wetting the plant?  My grafts are on older trees (2 to 4 years old) and pushing spring growth on other branches I didn't graft to.  Were it not for the grafts I wouldn't even be thinking of wetting a couple of these plants, I will of course wet the ones in pots.  My question is should I be wetting a grafted plant that has started to push and how much?

Lastly, I have no plans to fertilize these plants anytime soon.  Is this a best practice or should I be feeding them now and what with? Nitrogen rich fertilizer, a dressing of home made compost?

I will appreciate any feedback and thanks in advance.

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2020, 11:38:11 AM »
I can answer my first question, they should have been cut.
I took the binding on four that had been on the longest and looked good.  Two are just fine, but two had groves where the binding was and the branch before the tie was visibly fatter, not by much but alone to let me know it had been restricted some.  One of the two may still make it but the other had started dying from the union up so while it still had a small leaf at the top of the scion it was already brown at the base.  I took it off and was able to shave off about half of it before I got to green wood.  I regrafted it to the same branch below the tie and I hope it still takes though I doubt it will.

Based on the finding with these 4 I did the rounds and took the tie off any grafts done more than 3 weeks ago.  The unions look good but I tied the end down so they don't split or separate with time.  I think I got to the rest in time and was careful not to move break the union with my untying and retying.

I am very tempted to water the trees in the ground but I am holding off since I see no signs of stress like leafs wilting though I know it may be too late for the grafts if I see those signs. 





achetadomestica

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2020, 12:48:02 PM »
I grafted some loquats last year and one of the windy days one of my
loquats snapped at the union. They were grafted almost a year ago and
seemed healed. I was very lucky and staked it and retaped it and it looked
a little dehydrated but snapped back. I will make sure I have good stakes in
with my newly grafted trees in the future

Guanabanus

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2020, 01:26:18 PM »
Watering and fertilizing, including with Nitrogen, keeps the root-stock juicy, which is helpful for scion survival and growth.
Har

Johnny Redland

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 10:08:07 AM »
I find that saturating the soil with water for 1-2 months every day after grafting really improves grafting odds of success.  Even some of my worst splicing jobs are given more time to heal (however ugly it may appear afterwards) when they are kept moist.  Har mentioned fertilizing as well, but I would try to avoid that on smaller rootstocks to prevent burning.  On larger, more mature rootstocks I agree that it would be beneficial and promote faster growth by adding the additional energy.

Guanabanus

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 10:41:37 AM »
Large nurseries put one pinch (between two fingers) of fast-release fertilizer, on the same side as the graft, about one month after grafting, in two-quart to two-gallon pots.
Har

Johnny Redland

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 01:57:14 PM »
Large nurseries put one pinch (between two fingers) of fast-release fertilizer, on the same side as the graft, about one month after grafting, in two-quart to two-gallon pots.

Well there you go  :-X

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 02:36:24 PM »
Thank you.
I will feed and water.

None of the initial batch were on seedlings, they were in potted or in ground older trees (3 years+)
I do have a couple from my last set on seedlings and I will give them a pinch of fertilizer in a week or two.

spaugh

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 03:31:30 PM »
I use a strong flagging tape over the graft to hold it very tight and leave it for 6 weeks.  If you remove the tape too soon, the grafts will grow and pop apart Ive found.  Best to leave it tied up for 6+ weeks to fully heal.
Brad Spaugh

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 03:41:20 PM »
Thanks Brad.  I will use 6 weeks as a guide.  I have had grafts separate as the union grew and the rootstock at the cut dried up and peal back.
My concern was girdling the branch with tape that won't stretch.

Do you ever have a situation where you get a take but before you undo the tape it had compressed the bark under the tape?  How do you avoid that?

Oolie

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 03:47:16 PM »
Thanks Brad.  I will use 6 weeks as a guide.  I have had grafts separate as the union grew and the rootstock at the cut dried up and peal back.
My concern was girdling the branch with tape that won't stretch.

Do you ever have a situation where you get a take but before you undo the tape it had compressed the bark under the tape?  How do you avoid that?
It has happened, but is usually only present after a year.

spaugh

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2020, 04:08:08 PM »
Thanks Brad.  I will use 6 weeks as a guide.  I have had grafts separate as the union grew and the rootstock at the cut dried up and peal back.
My concern was girdling the branch with tape that won't stretch.

Do you ever have a situation where you get a take but before you undo the tape it had compressed the bark under the tape?  How do you avoid that?

It takes a long time to start to girdle the graft joint.  Ive had it when I forget about it and come back a year later.  The flagging tape is bright colored and stands out so you dont really miss it.  If you put too many layers of buddy tape or parafilm on the union and forget about it, it will girdle.  Especially buddy tape, it doesnt break down and crack like parafilm does.  So what I do is use a single layer of buddy tape on the scions.  Then when grafting wrap the unions with 1 or 2 layers of parafilm (because it doesnt girdle as easily).  Then wrap the union(over the parafilm) really tight with presco texas 1-3/16" pvc flagging tape.  Works like a champ.  Wrap it really tight and then clip it on so you dont have to cut it off, just remove the clip later and unwind it.  Or if its a really big graft tie a half knot to hold it in place for 6 weeks.  Then once I remove the flagging tape after 6 weeks, I may decide to leave a clip on the top of the graft union or put the flagging tape back on if its not healed well enough.  Or if everything looks good, remove the parafilm tape off the union and scion if possible.

Hope that all made sense.  Buddy tape on the scion, parafilm on the graft union, then bright colored flagging tape over the parafilm on the graft joint.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:14:56 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 09:00:24 PM »
Surprisingly, it is.  Thanks.

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2020, 02:31:53 PM »
Spring grafting season for annona is over and it is time to move on to Mango.

I had a better outcome than my previous several seasons  (attribute it to luck, improving skills, better conditions  and materials)
Thanks to everyone who sold, gave, or traded me scions this season.  I did the final grafts earlier today and that really should be it. .... for now.
I hope in a year or two to be talking about fruits of some special atemoyas.

For those who had good seasons, feel free to share pictures of your takes.




sunny

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2020, 11:44:09 AM »
I have good success with grafting annona's (atemoya) onto reticulata by only using parafilm.

This week i grafted illama onto the same tree, the scions were not flushing and not even had fat buds but i was astonished to see it flushing the next day. That's really amazing for me.

So today i grafted 2 more illama's onto it from another seedling...would be awesome to see them flush tomorrow but i'm holding my breath.

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2020, 09:27:44 PM »
That is interesting.  Everything I had read was that Atemoya was not graft compatible with reticulata rootstock.

Do you know what variety of each? 

Guanabanus

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2020, 09:35:26 PM »
Delayed incompatibilty, several years later.
Har

sunny

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2020, 02:09:41 AM »
That is interesting.  Everything I had read was that Atemoya was not graft compatible with reticulata rootstock.

Do you know what variety of each?

I'm building a cocktailtree from my annona's...the mother tree is a red colored annona (grafted onto unknown rootstock), here on the forum it is called isan (esan) indigo i believe but i bought it here in Thailand. It gives normal annona's (noina) with a red outside skin.

I grafted african pride on it, and yellow king from taiwan and pineapple annona from taiwan.....especially african pride grows really fast on this tree.

The red illama i grafted this week is also still growing and broke the parafilm now. The ones i grafted yesterday are still dormant.

In Thailand there are many many atemoya's for sale now (also cherimoya), mostly from Taiwan but also from the US and Israel..i wonder what they used as rootstock since we only have pet pakchong here as a local atemoya. I read that they can be grafted onto reticulata so that's why i tried it and it works good, so far.

African pride already started blooming in 8 weeks after being grafted...

But it is summer now and very hot, the illama's stopped growing (except that grafted scion) and my rollinia is going to die i think..(from the heat of 40 celcius daily?)

I'm going to graft rollinia onto the cocktailtree as well now, let's try it...nothing to loose.


Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 08:38:52 PM »
Thanks for sharing and keep sharing.

Also, as noted above, in case of delayed compatibility issues, you may want to grow some seedlings of a compatible root stock and graft from your takes.  That way, even if they die years later you will have saved the varieties.

achetadomestica

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2020, 09:03:53 PM »
I grafted a 47-18 on sugar apple rootstock last Spring.
It looks great this Spring but I was wondering if
anyone has grafted 47-18 before and what root stock they used?

THANKS!

Seanny

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »
1 on AP
1 on cherimoya

Had 2 sugar apple seedling last year.
Only 1 survived over winter .
I don't use it as rootstock here.

sunny

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2020, 09:31:54 AM »
I grafted another scion of deep pink ilama onto my red annona tree and also that one started flushing now after 5 days.

The first one is growing well and has some leaves already.

Strange thing is that those seedling ilama's didn't grow at all last 3 months since it's really hot here for summer. But on that reticulata rootstock they grow nonstop.

Orkine

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Re: Important question on grafting annonas
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2020, 12:08:59 PM »
Interesting.
Please share your observations intermittently (when there is somthing worth reporting) , we are interested and curious to see how this plays out.


 

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