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Author Topic: Annona sp & link to parkinsons  (Read 3269 times)

Garden_Harley_FL

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2020, 02:23:01 PM »
Wont stop me from eating all the annonas I see. Fruit is medicine - it will always be to me. My grandparents have lived both past 100 eating annonas all their life on their farm in Colombia and I plan on doing the same  ;)
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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2020, 03:18:58 PM »
All fruits and vegetables contain some toxins in minute quantities.The new theory of toxins in vegetables and fruit help turn over damaged cells?

http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/fruits-and-vegetables-are-trying-to-kill-you

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2020, 04:06:31 PM »

What does fruit have to with medicine anyways?  If you wany to talk about medical research go right ahead but to claim fruit causes diseases is ridiculous... we all know how big a deal the medical community would make if one were to claim fruit cures diseases... >:(

I'm sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

You have stated plenty of factual claims in this thread based off nothing but your opinion..  I've at least provided hard data (NMR and mass spec) backing up what I'm saying.  If you want to pretend like this is "fake news" and chemical analysis is made up, that is fine.

You do know plenty of natural substances are deadly or cause disease right.  I wouldn't recommend munching on datura or castor bean seeds for instance...both of which contain "natural" substances.  This idea that all natural plant based substances can't harm or do no wrong is moronic.

It is moronic and I didn't state anywhere that all natural compounds are benign so not sure where that comes from... ???

But it is equally moronic to imply that a fruit causes a specific disease based on a few chemical compounds in a fruit "causing" deterioration in a rat. You can bend all kind of studies to imply what you want.

What else did the rat eat, what kind of water was it subjected to drink? What was the TDS of the water? The pH? , what was the pH of the air it breathed? I get you want to state an opinion and I am entitled to mine as well...

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2020, 04:10:38 PM »

What does fruit have to with medicine anyways?  If you wany to talk about medical research go right ahead but to claim fruit causes diseases is ridiculous... we all know how big a deal the medical community would make if one were to claim fruit cures diseases... >:(

I'm sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

You have stated plenty of factual claims in this thread based off nothing but your opinion..  I've at least provided hard data (NMR and mass spec) backing up what I'm saying.  If you want to pretend like this is "fake news" and chemical analysis is made up, that is fine.

You do know plenty of natural substances are deadly or cause disease right.  I wouldn't recommend munching on datura or castor bean seeds for instance...both of which contain "natural" substances.  This idea that all natural plant based substances can't harm or do no wrong is moronic.

 Here you go, right off the bat a quick article regarding Princeton University findings on Cellular Regeneration in the brain... Just because you are in denial and can't accept it doesn't mean it doesn't occur

https://www.thoughtco.com/regeneration-of-brain-cells-373181

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2020, 04:20:49 PM »
Wont stop me from eating all the annonas I see. Fruit is medicine - it will always be to me. My grandparents have lived both past 100 eating annonas all their life on their farm in Colombia and I plan on doing the same  ;)

How is this possibleeeeeeeeeeeeeee?!?!?!?!

Also where is your proof?!

I'm just kidding, this is an awesome example of what we are going to have to show the people claiming fruit is going to ruin your health in the future because it is coming as we can see.

I agree on letting fruit be your medicine! ;D

sharkbait

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2020, 04:42:07 PM »
 Here you go, right off the bat a quick article regarding Princeton University findings on Cellular Regeneration in the brain... Just because you are in denial and can't accept it doesn't mean it doesn't occur

https://www.thoughtco.com/regeneration-of-brain-cells-373181
[/quote]

the paper you quoted said cerebral cortex, not midbrain.  It states "For almost 100 years, it had been a mantra of biology that brain cells or neurons do not regenerate" but that "neurogenesis continuously occurs in specific regions in the adult brain". 

By using the word "specific", the paper authors are implying that in other areas regeneration probably doesn't happen.

if midbrain neurons regenerated, we would have a lot less people with parkinsons....perhaps you believe that parkinsons is a made up big pharma condition too.  or perhaps the neurotoxins have reached your cerebral cortex
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 05:01:13 PM by sharkbait »

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2020, 05:52:05 PM »
Here you go, right off the bat a quick article regarding Princeton University findings on Cellular Regeneration in the brain... Just because you are in denial and can't accept it doesn't mean it doesn't occur

https://www.thoughtco.com/regeneration-of-brain-cells-373181

the paper you quoted said cerebral cortex, not midbrain.  It states "For almost 100 years, it had been a mantra of biology that brain cells or neurons do not regenerate" but that "neurogenesis continuously occurs in specific regions in the adult brain". 

By using the word "specific", the paper authors are implying that in other areas regeneration probably doesn't happen.

if midbrain neurons regenerated, we would have a lot less people with parkinsons....perhaps you believe that parkinsons is a made up big pharma condition too.  or perhaps the neurotoxins have reached your cerebral cortex
[/quote]

I love you sharkbait, we all need a good nemesis to keep us honest lol

How did I know you were going to go there? Midbrain neurons vs cerebral cortex neurons... really?

This is the narcissism I'm talking about... what are we trying to lose the "common folk" in this back and forth so they all bow down to Dr. Neuroscience and his theories with his big degree from the major university?

Sure there are differences in cells when you move from say the brain to the bone cells, but is there really that big of a difference in your precious nigrostriatal dopaminergic neuron cells and cerebral cortex neuron cells? So much that regeneration is only possible in one and not the other? I don't buy that theory at all...

How dare you insinuate that I think Parkinsons is fake. But you are right it is a big pharma fabrication as it is just a name on symptoms as are all diseases which happen to be theories as well. But it makes sense since their goal is to treat not cure. That is why they are so scared of the root causes and only address treating symptoms.

If people would focus on the root cause of disease their would be a lot more curing and a lot less treatment...Oh wait, you can't say the word cure because that is owned by the medical community even though that is something they know nothing about.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5745834/

« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 10:51:51 PM by Jabba The Hutt »

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2020, 05:57:41 PM »
The main gist of the article I posted is a diet rich in fruits and vegetables is very good but may not be for the reasons you think!.And supplements not so much but the good and bad in plants(toxins vs antioxidants).This is new thinking so...

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2020, 06:42:39 PM »
The main gist of the article I posted is a diet rich in fruits and vegetables is very good but may not be for the reasons you think!.And supplements not so much but the good and bad in plants(toxins vs antioxidants).This is new thinking so...

New thinking isn't allowed around these parts apparently, not when it doesn't fit the medical narrative anyways, right sharkbait? Just like how Cherilata is an imaginary fairytale fruit in the land of California ::)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 06:48:35 PM by Jabba The Hutt »

Pnguyen

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2020, 12:16:19 AM »
I partially grew up in SE Asia but couldnít recalled of any Parkinsonís person in my town.  We do ate lots of annona.  It is also one of my favorite.  In away, all plant, fruits and vegetables has some form of toxicity.However, the trace amount is not large enough dosage to caused harm in a person lifetime.  They could became acute when a person accumulated enough in their systems after 80-100 years of consumption. For example, the Japanese might have more cases of stomach cancer because high consumption of raw seafood.

Unless a person is taking a massive amount in a short period that the body cannot digested.  As an example, a couple year back a radio DJ in SoCal has a contest to see who can drink the most water in a day. Well, a girl won the contest but died soon after because her body cannot dilate. She is very much die because of water poisoning; might I said. Too much a good thing is not good either.

There are also another factor of biological. Annona might have caused the diseases to certain populations because certain biological made up. However, that does not means it will have the same for general populations.  Otherwise, the region that grows annona would have many cases of Parkinsonís.  Contrary, I know a few persons who grew up in the US that never touch an annona with Parkinsonís. Another example, a typical person can only handle a six pack of beers at most. But there are many guys or gals that can handle two packs easily regardless of body weights.

I am more than happy to die from Na Dai because they are very hard to find in SoCal. I rather ate them all day than none. In general, fruits and annona do more good than harm because we generally donít have enough of them in our diets.

sharkbait

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2020, 01:16:52 AM »
I partially grew up in SE Asia but couldnít recalled of any Parkinsonís person in my town.  We do ate lots of annona.  It is also one of my favorite.  In away, all plant, fruits and vegetables has some form of toxicity.However, the trace amount is not large enough dosage to caused harm in a person lifetime.  They could became acute when a person accumulated enough in their systems after 80-100 years of consumption. For example, the Japanese might have more cases of stomach cancer because high consumption of raw seafood.

Unless a person is taking a massive amount in a short period that the body cannot digested.  As an example, a couple year back a radio DJ in SoCal has a contest to see who can drink the most water in a day. Well, a girl won the contest but died soon after because her body cannot dilate. She is very much die because of water poisoning; might I said. Too much a good thing is not good either.

There are also another factor of biological. Annona might have caused the diseases to certain populations because certain biological made up. However, that does not means it will have the same for general populations.  Otherwise, the region that grows annona would have many cases of Parkinsonís.  Contrary, I know a few persons who grew up in the US that never touch an annona with Parkinsonís. Another example, a typical person can only handle a six pack of beers at most. But there are many guys or gals that can handle two packs easily regardless of body weights.

I am more than happy to die from Na Dai because they are very hard to find in SoCal. I rather ate them all day than none. In general, fruits and annona do more good than harm because we generally donít have enough of them in our diets.

all excellent points on cumulative dosage, genetic predisposition, toxicity of normal foods (even water) taken in excess quantities.
here's a true story (yes an anecdote, which is weak, but nonetheless): my grandmother followed a very strict almost vegetarian diet, wouldn't let me eat bbq foods as a child (due to 'processed sugars' on the glaze).  my grandfather smoked cigarettes for 40 yrs, drank a quarter handle of liquor every night, and ate whatever he wanted, when he wanted.  I was surprised who outlived the other by about 10 years..  And if I followed my grandmothers advice, I would have missed out on a lot of ribs and brisket..
Like I said, I do intend to keep eating annonas, but in moderation.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 02:07:57 AM by sharkbait »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2020, 06:20:21 AM »
People on that island drink tea made from annona leaves.
Its recomended not to drink annona leaves tea every day for long perriods of time.
Fruits are ok but avoid puting them in the blender with the seeds and avoid cooking these fruits.
Cooking makes them toxic from what i recall about pawpaws.

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2020, 08:28:22 AM »
I partially grew up in SE Asia but couldnít recalled of any Parkinsonís person in my town.  We do ate lots of annona.  It is also one of my favorite.  In away, all plant, fruits and vegetables has some form of toxicity.However, the trace amount is not large enough dosage to caused harm in a person lifetime.  They could became acute when a person accumulated enough in their systems after 80-100 years of consumption. For example, the Japanese might have more cases of stomach cancer because high consumption of raw seafood.

Unless a person is taking a massive amount in a short period that the body cannot digested.  As an example, a couple year back a radio DJ in SoCal has a contest to see who can drink the most water in a day. Well, a girl won the contest but died soon after because her body cannot dilate. She is very much die because of water poisoning; might I said. Too much a good thing is not good either.

There are also another factor of biological. Annona might have caused the diseases to certain populations because certain biological made up. However, that does not means it will have the same for general populations.  Otherwise, the region that grows annona would have many cases of Parkinsonís.  Contrary, I know a few persons who grew up in the US that never touch an annona with Parkinsonís. Another example, a typical person can only handle a six pack of beers at most. But there are many guys or gals that can handle two packs easily regardless of body weights.

I am more than happy to die from Na Dai because they are very hard to find in SoCal. I rather ate them all day than none. In general, fruits and annona do more good than harm because we generally donít have enough of them in our diets.

all excellent points on cumulative dosage, genetic predisposition, toxicity of normal foods (even water) taken in excess quantities.
here's a true story (yes an anecdote, which is weak, but nonetheless): my grandmother followed a very strict almost vegetarian diet, wouldn't let me eat bbq foods as a child (due to 'processed sugars' on the glaze).  my grandfather smoked cigarettes for 40 yrs, drank a quarter handle of liquor every night, and ate whatever he wanted, when he wanted.  I was surprised who outlived the other by about 10 years..  And if I followed my grandmothers advice, I would have missed out on a lot of ribs and brisket..
Like I said, I do intend to keep eating annonas, but in moderation.

As makes sense, it seems that everything is based on genetics...each persons body is different due to genetic factors. From here your cells have a certain "strength" and limits to how much damage they can take before you see symptoms of this damage.

As you would imagine genetically strong people can last many more years drinking, smoking and eating poorly than a genetically weak person.

Giannhs

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2020, 09:54:57 AM »
Hi,
i have watched such talks since one or two years ago, and they have curbed my enthusiasm for Annonaceae, but still i may make some remarks which i have also made at the fb group "pawpaw fanatics":
All those experiments with rats were done by injecting the rats with Annonacins, and not feeding them with Annona fruits. (Please correct me if i m mistaken). I never heard of rats being harmed by eating Annonaceae fruit pulp.
Since the time that America was inhabited by humans, Annona fruits have been consumed, some times heavily, but nobody observed any ailment from consuming Annonas pulp. Indians would have observed it. Surely the seeds and skin are toxic, but nature did not intend us to eat the skin or seeds (or leaves as tea, which probably do cause damage).
This site here https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Asimina+triloba mentions nothing of danger in eating the pulp. Also it says that the bark is a bitter tonic.
Some people in this forum and in the fb pawpaw group have experience of eating large quantities of pawpaw and other Annonas (i have never eaten too much of them), and the more they eat Annonas the more happy they are, nobody observed any harm.
I personally know a man who has retired early because of Parkinson, but he doesn't know what an Annona kind of fruit is.
Maybe there is a reason to present the pawpaws and other Annonaceae as dangerous? Pawpaws can grow in very cold areas, and many Annonaceae can grow in temperate areas where winter temperatures do not reach below -5 Celsius. At least in Greece, almost nobody knows of Annonaceae fruit, but those who have tasted love them even more than mangos (which are rarely available tree-ripened, and then too expensive). So, if we suppose that people start growing pawpaws and other Annonaceae in countries which import mangos a.o. tropical fruit, will tropical fruit continue to be imported and sold to high prices? (e.g one airborne medium size mango alone costs about 5 euro, while in tropical countries it costs 5 cents). So maybe they want to minimize the consumption of Annonaceae in order to keep the tropical fruit import business as lucrative as it is now. I don't say that the research on Annonacins is fake news, but it may have been conducted and presented in such a way as to serve certain interests rather than the people's health.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 10:03:18 AM by Giannhs »

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2020, 10:28:12 AM »
Hi,
i have watched such talks since one or two years ago, and they have curbed my enthusiasm for Annonaceae, but still i may make some remarks which i have also made at the fb group "pawpaw fanatics":
All those experiments with rats were done by injecting the rats with Annonacins, and not feeding them with Annona fruits. (Please correct me if i m mistaken). I never heard of rats being harmed by eating Annonaceae fruit pulp.
Since the time that America was inhabited by humans, Annona fruits have been consumed, some times heavily, but nobody observed any ailment from consuming Annonas pulp. Indians would have observed it. Surely the seeds and skin are toxic, but nature did not intend us to eat the skin or seeds (or leaves as tea, which probably do cause damage).
This site here https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Asimina+triloba mentions nothing of danger in eating the pulp. Also it says that the bark is a bitter tonic.
Some people in this forum and in the fb pawpaw group have experience of eating large quantities of pawpaw and other Annonas (i have never eaten too much of them), and the more they eat Annonas the more happy they are, nobody observed any harm.
I personally know a man who has retired early because of Parkinson, but he doesn't know what an Annona kind of fruit is.
Maybe there is a reason to present the pawpaws and other Annonaceae as dangerous? Pawpaws can grow in very cold areas, and many Annonaceae can grow in temperate areas where winter temperatures do not reach below -5 Celsius. At least in Greece, almost nobody knows of Annonaceae fruit, but those who have tasted love them even more than mangos (which are rarely available tree-ripened, and then too expensive). So, if we suppose that people start growing pawpaws and other Annonaceae in countries which import mangos a.o. tropical fruit, will tropical fruit continue to be imported and sold to high prices? (e.g one airborne medium size mango alone costs about 5 euro, while in tropical countries it costs 5 cents). So maybe they want to minimize the consumption of Annonaceae in order to keep the tropical fruit import business as lucrative as it is now. I don't say that the research on Annonacins is fake news, but it may have been conducted and presented in such a way as to serve certain interests rather than the people's health.


This is exactly the issue I'm having with this study. It seems as if there is an interest in making annonas look bad. Now I'm trying to play nice and not point fingers at who these people may be (Pharma, growers of certain fruits, importer/exporters):cough cough:


Tommyng

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2020, 11:23:50 AM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 11:25:27 AM by Tommyng »
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Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2020, 02:09:29 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

Tommyng

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2020, 03:06:09 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

There is a lot of quack research today that poses itself as real peer-reviewed science. Itís hard to be a true scientist when your hands are bound.

In regards to this study, one only needs to look at Parkinsonís rates by country to know that this study has inherent problems. The countries that consumes Annonas regularly have the lowest rates of Parkinsonís. Then you take into account administration is via injection and not ingestion throws a huge red flag. Anyone that argues ingestion is the same as injection should have all their credentials checked.
Donít rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

sharkbait

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2020, 03:06:22 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.

I don't understand some of these claims.  You do realize the majority of research in the US is funded by public tax monies from NIH?  You can literarily read where the study was funded on almost every study on Pubmed.gov ; it will say it right there.  Most research by PhDs at universities are paid a pittance and work to obtain grants from the govt that will fund their research idea.  Independent research is actually quite common; perhaps everyone does have their bias.  The scientific process is designed to eliminate bias as much as possible (especially with randomized controlled trials). 

In reality I am more skeptical of "big herb."  The supplement industry is HUGE these days, and there are a lot of people marketing different things for different reasons.  There is almost minimal regulation for supplements in the US.  You can make almost any claim and idiots will believe you and buy your item.  I could post a false facebook article titled "promising new research shows a special subtype of mulberry may hold natural cure to lupus" and that would get shared a million times and people like Jabbathehutt would buy my supplements. 

In the last 10 years there has been a big movement against science and support for controversial theories: 
-People believe modern vaccinations are generally more harmful than beneficial. 
-People believe pharma is hiding the "cure for HIV"
-Some people believe the holocaust didn't happen. 
-Some people believe the earth is flat. 

What do you say to these people?  I know I will get more out of talking to my dog's butthole. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 10:57:58 AM by sharkbait »

sharkbait

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2020, 03:11:25 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

There is a lot of quack research today that poses itself as real peer-reviewed science. Itís hard to be a true scientist when your hands are bound.

In regards to this study, one only needs to look at Parkinsonís rates by country to know that this study has inherent problems. The countries that consumes Annonas regularly have the lowest rates of Parkinsonís. Then you take into account administration is via injection and not ingestion throws a huge red flag. Anyone that argues ingestion is the same as injection should have all their credentials checked.

Yea I agree there is a lot of quack research out there.  One of the points of peer review process is to help parse out the BS studies, but many get through.  If you are versed in reading studies though you can read the methods and make a judgement for yourself.  Even the best studies have weaknesses and areas that future studies should build on. 

To be fair it is hard to argue against basic extraction numbers for NMR/mass spec.  That is cold hard data.  Similar numbers were shown in a second study i read this week.  You could always argue they both collaborated to completely fabricate the numbers I guess..

The oral consumption vs IV point is an important distinction.  In my 1st post I mentioned that they fed rats orally and it was then detected in their plasma though (https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0034-1394993).  A weakness is they have not shown this in humans to my knowledge.

The parkinsons rate by country is the strongest point, and why I still eat them.  I can't find the study right now but I remember reading one stating that the rates of parkinsons for guadeloupe is pretty similar to other countries. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 04:14:20 PM by sharkbait »

Tommyng

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2020, 04:21:12 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.

In the past I've been a salaried bench researcher and I don't understand some of these claims.  They are just so against what life is like in the research world.  I guess I missed my big pharma paycheck in the mail.  You do realize the majority of research in the US is funded by public tax monies from NIH?  You can literarily read where the study was funded on almost every study on Pubmed.gov ; it will say it right there.  Most research by PhDs at universities are paid a pittance and work to obtain grants from the govt that will fund their research idea.  Independent research is actually quite common; perhaps everyone does have their bias.  The scientific process is designed to eliminate bias as much as possible (especially with randomized controlled trials). 

In reality I am more skeptical of "big herb."  The supplement industry is HUGE these days, and there are a lot of people marketing different things for different reasons.  There is almost minimal regulation for supplements in the US.  You can make almost any claim and idiots will believe you and buy your item.  I could post a facebook article titled "promising new research shows a special subtype of mulberry may hold natural cure to lupus" and that would get shared a million times and people like Jabbathehutt would buy my supplements. 

In the last 10 years there has been a big movement against science and support for controversial theories: 
-People believe vaccinations are generally more harmful than beneficial. 
-People believe pharma is hiding the "cure for HIV"
-Some people believe the holocaust didn't happen. 
-Some people believe the earth is flat. 

What do you say to these people?  I know I will get more out of talking to my dog's butthole.

I used to be a research scientist and worked for both the nih and cdc during my graduate years. You only need to look at history and even what is going on today to realize how biased some science has been. Remember when tobacco smoke didnít cause lung cancer and doctors were even seen promoting its use. How about glycophospate and asbestos. You canít get any funding for aluminum adjuvant research anymore because it will lead you down dark rabbit hole, itís only funded philanthropically now. Try to get any funding doing research on why more than half of U.S. have a chronic illness without having anyone breathing down your neck.   

In regards to science. It is ever changing. There was a time when you were shamed for your round earth theory. This was an interesting study but I would not base my diet upon it. I just interjected myself in this discussion because the study was flawed and I didnít want it to have someone miss out on eating a good Annona. This is a fruit forum though, letís talk about fruit.
Donít rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

countryboy1981

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2020, 04:25:47 PM »
The main gist of the article I posted is a diet rich in fruits and vegetables is very good but may not be for the reasons you think!.And supplements not so much but the good and bad in plants(toxins vs antioxidants).This is new thinking so...

You have to remember that many people in the United States no longer grow their own food.  They are purchasing these fruits and vegetables from the grocery stores and by the time it is purchased have lost most of the vitamins and other nutrients.

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2020, 04:38:26 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

There is a lot of quack research today that poses itself as real peer-reviewed science. Itís hard to be a true scientist when your hands are bound.

In regards to this study, one only needs to look at Parkinsonís rates by country to know that this study has inherent problems. The countries that consumes Annonas regularly have the lowest rates of Parkinsonís. Then you take into account administration is via injection and not ingestion throws a huge red flag. Anyone that argues ingestion is the same as injection should have all their credentials checked.

There is even peer-reviewed science that still has me calling bull$#!+...

I know for instance I went on a rant about the medical community but it is FACTUAL that they TREAT and SUPRESS symptoms only and DO NOT CURE... That is the whole goal and why people get so upset about it is beyond me... Facts are facts.

I've worked in the field for years get the **** over it already... If they were to be more transparent then people wouldn't worship them like gods but would understand they are a business and they only care about the bottom line.

These are the kind of people that constantly piss me off with their "factual" studies when ALL their FACTS are THEORIES with major flaws!!! Sorry, don't care about your degree from Big Whoop University, that doesn't present facts as they should be. I had coworkers and friends who were Harvard Doctors and you wouldn't believe the stories they would tell me.

I keep using allopathy as my main example because that is what I am most familiar with and they are the biggest offenders...

Back to this study... It is a huge red flag about the IV introduction instead of eaten. Sorry, but you can't claim anything after that other than injecting this compound into rats possibly had such an effect. It is no longer  pertinent to ingested versions of whatever you are testing. Apples and oranges...

Like I said before in another post, ingesting Vitamin C from fruit is great but IVing Ascorbic Acid to me is asinine.Two completely different effects on the body.

sharkbait

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2020, 05:21:12 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

There is a lot of quack research today that poses itself as real peer-reviewed science. Itís hard to be a true scientist when your hands are bound.

In regards to this study, one only needs to look at Parkinsonís rates by country to know that this study has inherent problems. The countries that consumes Annonas regularly have the lowest rates of Parkinsonís. Then you take into account administration is via injection and not ingestion throws a huge red flag. Anyone that argues ingestion is the same as injection should have all their credentials checked.

There is even peer-reviewed science that still has me calling bull$#!+...

I know for instance I went on a rant about the medical community but it is FACTUAL that they TREAT and SUPRESS symptoms only and DO NOT CURE... That is the whole goal and why people get so upset about it is beyond me... Facts are facts.

I've worked in the field for years get the **** over it already... If they were to be more transparent then people wouldn't worship them like gods but would understand they are a business and they only care about the bottom line.

These are the kind of people that constantly piss me off with their "factual" studies when ALL their FACTS are THEORIES with major flaws!!! Sorry, don't care about your degree from Big Whoop University, that doesn't present facts as they should be. I had coworkers and friends who were Harvard Doctors and you wouldn't believe the stories they would tell me.

I keep using allopathy as my main example because that is what I am most familiar with and they are the biggest offenders...

Back to this study... It is a huge red flag about the IV introduction instead of eaten. Sorry, but you can't claim anything after that other than injecting this compound into rats possibly had such an effect. It is no longer  pertinent to ingested versions of whatever you are testing. Apples and oranges...

Like I said before in another post, ingesting Vitamin C from fruit is great but IVing Ascorbic Acid to me is asinine.Two completely different effects on the body.

Whatever is said, you just keep coming back to attacking healthcare workers.  Many of them having given up more than you'll ever know (or personally done) for the betterment of humanity and their communities.. sure hope you never need one one day. 

On that note I'm out.  My bottomline point is that there is limited preliminary data showing why it might be a good idea to moderate intake.  I don't think the final word is out, and many in this thread have given good points on weaknesses of the existing data.

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: Annona sp & link to parkinsons
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2020, 06:44:10 PM »
You only need to know who funds any scientific or medical study to discern what motives they have to reach their conclusions. True independent and unbiased research is extremely rare these days.


Love it! This is exactly what I'm getting at!

There is a lot of quack research today that poses itself as real peer-reviewed science. Itís hard to be a true scientist when your hands are bound.

In regards to this study, one only needs to look at Parkinsonís rates by country to know that this study has inherent problems. The countries that consumes Annonas regularly have the lowest rates of Parkinsonís. Then you take into account administration is via injection and not ingestion throws a huge red flag. Anyone that argues ingestion is the same as injection should have all their credentials checked.

There is even peer-reviewed science that still has me calling bull$#!+...

I know for instance I went on a rant about the medical community but it is FACTUAL that they TREAT and SUPRESS symptoms only and DO NOT CURE... That is the whole goal and why people get so upset about it is beyond me... Facts are facts.

I've worked in the field for years get the **** over it already... If they were to be more transparent then people wouldn't worship them like gods but would understand they are a business and they only care about the bottom line.

These are the kind of people that constantly piss me off with their "factual" studies when ALL their FACTS are THEORIES with major flaws!!! Sorry, don't care about your degree from Big Whoop University, that doesn't present facts as they should be. I had coworkers and friends who were Harvard Doctors and you wouldn't believe the stories they would tell me.

I keep using allopathy as my main example because that is what I am most familiar with and they are the biggest offenders...

Back to this study... It is a huge red flag about the IV introduction instead of eaten. Sorry, but you can't claim anything after that other than injecting this compound into rats possibly had such an effect. It is no longer  pertinent to ingested versions of whatever you are testing. Apples and oranges...

Like I said before in another post, ingesting Vitamin C from fruit is great but IVing Ascorbic Acid to me is asinine.Two completely different effects on the body.

Whatever is said, you just keep coming back to attacking healthcare workers.  Many of them having given up more than you'll ever know (or personally done) for the betterment of humanity and their communities.. sure hope you never need one one day. 

On that note I'm out.  My bottomline point is that there is limited preliminary data showing why it might be a good idea to moderate intake.  I don't think the final word is out, and many in this thread have given good points on weaknesses of the existing data.

You can get off your high horse, I don't need the lecture as I am a healthcare worker who realizes the flaws in their own modality...  I say something because I DO CARE...There are many of us who want to help but our hands are bound! When you stumble into pile after pile of bull$#!+ you have to make the choice to blow the whistle or not to, but apparently all those that keep a facade going are the real heroes!!! ::)

I'm sorry that people saw through this joke of a study, you act like it is your life work or something... I am still grateful you presented it as it gave us something to debate about.

 

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