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Author Topic: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence  (Read 1564 times)

Viraldonutz

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Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« on: April 21, 2020, 08:12:50 PM »
Can anyone explain the difference between the two?  How do they compare in taste, production, vigor, etc.?  I've read about each, but I'm having a hard time keeping them straight...

Which do you prefer?
--Jake

Oolie

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 11:39:26 PM »
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=26385.msg348705#msg348705

My recommendation would be to learn the original name of each variety, as it's much easier to obtain valuable information from this forum using those numbers versus the Zill marketing name in a search. OE is 40-33.

Basically there is not much data yet on either of these varieties as to how they perform on the West coast. Both are recent releases, and are purported to have different flavors.

johnb51

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2020, 09:07:23 AM »
The two are not related.  Orange Sherbet is related to Lemon Zest and Lemon Meringue (parent).  Orange Essence is Kent x Gary.  It's probably anybody's guess how well they would do in your area.  They both sound like great varieties.  You should plant both, and let us know how they work out.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 09:11:51 AM by johnb51 »
John

Viraldonutz

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2020, 05:15:14 PM »
I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\
--Jake

johnb51

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2020, 09:36:56 PM »
I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\
I think that "less than a dozen" should include Orange Essence, and either Lemon Zest (preferably) or Orange Sherbet!  If you're taking Har's advice. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 09:44:10 PM by johnb51 »
John

Oolie

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2020, 10:24:19 PM »
I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 01:34:08 PM »
That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.
Jeff  :-)

mangokothiyan

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2020, 02:24:53 PM »
That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

Jeff, how productive is your OS? I am thinking of topworking part of my LM into OS. Compatible in terms of vigor and productivity?

Guanabanus

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2020, 10:41:36 PM »
I have seen a lot of unproductive, large trees that were identified as Orange Sherbet.  Considering that the original tree, and some large topworks nearby, were extremely productive, I don't know what to think.
Har

mangokothiyan

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2020, 12:06:36 AM »
I have seen a lot of unproductive, large trees that were identified as Orange Sherbet.  Considering that the original tree, and some large topworks nearby, were extremely productive, I don't know what to think.

Har, you helped me make up my mind. OS it is going to be on one part of my Lemon Meringue.  :)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2020, 12:35:51 AM »
The backstory on my OS tree (or trees I guess) -- I purchased several dozen OS mangoes from Walter Zill back in 2013 / 2014 (can't remember which year) and planted all of the seeds. From the dozens of sprouts, I selected the 2 that were most identical to the mother tree, both in terms of leaf appearance and sap smell (OS is polyembryonic, so the odds were high of finding a match).

When the seedlings were just a foot tall, I grafted them to a mature glenn that I had recently cut way back. Within 3 years, both flowered and fruited, producing a fruit identical to the mother tree. Both are identical in appearance, flavor, and habit to one another, giving me high confidence that both are indeed clones of the mother tree.

Both have been extremely vigorous -- laughably vigorous -- sending out telephone pole shoots that grow to 10 feet long in a single season (some of which flop over due to the weight).

Fruit set and retention is extremely good (5 - 6 fruits per panicle). However, only small portions of the canopy tend to flower, probably due to the vigor.

I think part of the issue is that the scions were grafted to a glenn that had been cut back quite heavily. Both sides seem to be calming down a bit, so I'm hopeful that next season I'll see more bloom.

Walter's tree, also a topwork onto a mature tree, was huge the last time I saw it. I know there have been reports of the growth being manageable, but perhaps that's only the case in the juvenile period of the tree's life?

That said, my favorite is still lemon zest :-).

That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

Jeff, how productive is your OS? I am thinking of topworking part of my LM into OS. Compatible in terms of vigor and productivity?
Jeff  :-)

Viraldonutz

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2020, 01:15:39 AM »
Can you compare the two, Har?  How similar do they taste? Is one better suited than the other to SoCal conditions?


I have seen a lot of unproductive, large trees that were identified as Orange Sherbet.  Considering that the original tree, and some large topworks nearby, were extremely productive, I don't know what to think.
--Jake

mangokothiyan

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2020, 09:26:48 AM »
Can you compare the two, Har?  How similar do they taste? Is one better suited than the other to SoCal conditions?


I have seen a lot of unproductive, large trees that were identified as Orange Sherbet.  Considering that the original tree, and some large topworks nearby, were extremely productive, I don't know what to think.

They don't taste similar. You can taste a hint of Gary in OE. OS reminds you of Lemon Meringue but is better. 

johnb51

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2020, 09:50:04 AM »
Can you compare the two, Har?  How similar do they taste? Is one better suited than the other to SoCal conditions?
They don't taste similar. You can taste a hint of Gary in OE. OS reminds you of Lemon Meringue but is better.
That's probably the best answer you're going to get.  And better suited to SoCal?  I doubt that Har would know.  Even here in SoFlo he says he's seen extremely productive OE trees and others that don't produce.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 09:53:20 AM by johnb51 »
John

mangokothiyan

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2020, 04:11:58 PM »
The backstory on my OS tree (or trees I guess) -- I purchased several dozen OS mangoes from Walter Zill back in 2013 / 2014 (can't remember which year) and planted all of the seeds. From the dozens of sprouts, I selected the 2 that were most identical to the mother tree, both in terms of leaf appearance and sap smell (OS is polyembryonic, so the odds were high of finding a match).

When the seedlings were just a foot tall, I grafted them to a mature glenn that I had recently cut way back. Within 3 years, both flowered and fruited, producing a fruit identical to the mother tree. Both are identical in appearance, flavor, and habit to one another, giving me high confidence that both are indeed clones of the mother tree.

Both have been extremely vigorous -- laughably vigorous -- sending out telephone pole shoots that grow to 10 feet long in a single season (some of which flop over due to the weight).

Fruit set and retention is extremely good (5 - 6 fruits per panicle). However, only small portions of the canopy tend to flower, probably due to the vigor.

I think part of the issue is that the scions were grafted to a glenn that had been cut back quite heavily. Both sides seem to be calming down a bit, so I'm hopeful that next season I'll see more bloom.

Walter's tree, also a topwork onto a mature tree, was huge the last time I saw it. I know there have been reports of the growth being manageable, but perhaps that's only the case in the juvenile period of the tree's life?

That said, my favorite is still lemon zest :-).

That's what I do.

I'd LOVE to plant both... as well as about 30 other varieties!!! ;) ;) ;)

But I was hoping to pare that 30 down to less than a dozen.  :-\

You could always multi-graft and then prune off the limbs of the less desired ones.

Jeff, how productive is your OS? I am thinking of topworking part of my LM into OS. Compatible in terms of vigor and productivity?

I am glad i already have a Lemon Zest planted. My LM has the same issue as your OS; only small portions of the canopy tend to flower. Fruit retention is really good.



Guanabanus

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2020, 08:55:56 PM »
It was Orange Sherbet that has production issues--- if the trees I saw were correctly identified.

Years ago there was some switcheroo going on with two different varieties being called that.
Har

johnb51

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2020, 11:20:59 PM »
It was Orange Sherbet that has production issues--- if the trees I saw were correctly identified.

Years ago there was some switcheroo going on with two different varieties being called that.
Yeah.  I misread that.  Sorry, Har.  How about Orange Essence?  Is it a good producer?  Consistent?
John

Guanabanus

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 02:01:18 PM »
Orange Essence is a medium to good producer, pretty consistently, where I have seen it.  There aren't all that many trees yet to look at.
Har

weiss613

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2020, 01:50:25 PM »
Orange Essence production report by me. I have 5 OE trees all 3 1/2 years in the ground. 1 of the trees has about 6 fruit and the others never even flowered. But this is probably meaningless. Why? Because where I live in Miami this has been a horrible year for mangoes in general so my observation is meaningless. But the fruit are all 100% clean and a very nice size as of today.

hawkfish007

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2020, 11:39:08 AM »
I havenít tasted an OS or OE yet, but growing one OS here in zone 9b. It is a small tree and has fruitlets in every panicle, some are big pea sized now. I will probably have to pinch off the fruits soon to let the tree grow vegetatively. It seems to grow well in SoCal and doesnít mind turpentine rootstock.



Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Mango -- Orange Sherbet vs. Orange Essence
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2020, 08:56:12 PM »
I currently have both Orange Sherbet and Orange Essence mango Trees on Turpentine. My experience thus far is OS is a fast and aggressive grower. I have already grafted it to an Ataulfo Seedling and just recently grafted it to my Lemon Zest tree in the ground (our temps have been warmer than normal for this time of year in Calif).  My OE is just now putting on its first flush and I just grafted it to my Manila in the ground.

Here is my recent photo of Orange Sherbet on Turpentine that I just moved for a 5 to 7-gallon and preparing for grafting. (I purchased this tree in Sept of 2019 as a small 3 gallon)

When I am done grafting the trees on Turpentine I will sell them and keep my manila rootstock trees with the grafts.

Looking forward to tasting the fruit in a few years.


« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 08:58:23 PM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

 

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