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Author Topic: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area  (Read 2589 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2020, 12:11:40 PM »
After many years of observations and contacting countless numbers of members of this forum, the few people that were able to have good success with Florida Turpentine rootstock trees were better able to understand the particular growing conditions that mangos require.

This is a very very small minority of the people on this forum from SoCal. These people tend to have better soil, foliar feed and know not to overwater, especially in Winter.

I can post multiple old threads where I compared Florida trees to seedlings but the responses I received from all the larger orchard owners that I have helped over the last decade is proof enough. I have personally killed too many Florida Turpentine rootstock trees and all my trees that are performing well are seedlings that I Grafted over.

Take a look at Leo Manuelís huge seedling trees and compare them to his approximately 20 year old Florida trees and it will be clear.

Brad and I also planted out a bunch of Florida trees, most were purchased before I partnered up, and now we are just ripping them all out because of lack of vigor, extreme droopiness and dead trees.

Simon

JF

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2020, 01:27:52 PM »
Hey Simon
I've also been experimenting and observing rootstocks for a decade here in socal and I think yr conclusion is way off. You are comparing Leo's seedlings to Florida's turpentine grafted trees. If you were really listening to Leo he would be the first to tell you turpentine rootstock is the best for our climate and if you take the time to study,  the largest commercial mango orchard in the USA, in the Coachella Valley, you would learn that their Keitt mangos are thriving on turpentine rootstock.....if you don't believe me they are on turpentine ask Har he was working for Zill in the late 80's when they fill the order for Mr. Marguleas of Sun World. I agree that perhaps folks, from socal, in the forum kill their Florida turpies for being inexperience and not having the proper microclimate for mangos to thrive. There is also other factor like transportation and transplant shock to consider. The fact is Simon, grafted trees on manila type rootstock droop as much as turpentine. The only advantage we have with the manila type rootstock is that they are more vigorous but in the long run they have the same issues with gummosis and phopmosis(root rot). I would suggest you reach out to gary matsuoka owner of laguna hills nursery he's been growing mangos in coastal orange county for years and hes an expert on California rootstook. As my mentor Eunice Messner use to tell me" Frank, mangos are doable in Socal but it's not easy" and she grew mangos in Anaheim Hills for over 40 years until her death.   
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 02:09:32 PM by JF »

shaneatwell

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2020, 02:33:10 PM »
I’m about $600 in on Florida rootstocks and only have mulch to show for it. My seedlings are alive on the other hand and my Thompson tree fantastic.
Shane

gozp

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2020, 02:43:34 PM »
My OE seedling prior to shaving off the disease related to antrancnose on the top growth main trunk.








I let my mango trees fruitast year & had high
High brix over these small turpentine rootstock.

K3 on turp




Os on Turp


SHV

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2020, 03:05:24 PM »
I too have fits trying to keep my Florida grafted trees alive in East county SD. Without a doubt, my seedling trees are far more robust than Florida trees on turpentine.  Rather than a consequence of turpentine being a poor fit for SoCA, I wonder if our troubles are more a combination of grafting mature scion wood on young seedlings and our less favorable climate.  With grafted trees from FL, we constantly battle flowering at a young tree age rather than allowing the tree to establish itself while it still young. Seedling trees avoid this issue, then we are able to top work once the tree is established and able to support flowering.  I have grown mango in Del Mar, Carlsbad, Vista, and Escondido.  My coastal grown FL graft trees always perform the best, probably from the more favorable climate with reduced temperature swings and frost threat. That said, the seedling grown trees ultimately always perform the best regardless of location.  I have seedling for all types of mangos and they all seem to grow with equal vigor.
Great discussion here.

simon_grow

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2020, 11:31:34 PM »
Letís not get words mixed here Frank, if you read through my posts, youíll find out that I actually use Leoís Turpentine fruit as rootstocks.

As I mentioned before, there are many different kinds of Mangos that are called ďTurpentineĒ. Typically these Mangos are vigorous and seem more tolerant of salinity. These Turpentine trees typically form smaller fruits that often form in clusters on the panicle. The fruit is typically fibrous but some actually have excellent flavor.

I posted pictures of Leoís Turpentine Mango fruits several years and he says they work great as rootstocks and that is why I have tested them and they perform great, just like most seedlings.

Iím willing to bet that if we were given Florida Turpentine seeds and planted them in SoCal, they would grow great here.

I hypothesize that something happens to the trees in the containers, perhaps some of the trees that are being sent to us is pot bound or they get acclimated to the warm weather in Florida and triggers something on the genetic level that makes it struggle when planted in our cooler climate.

Hereís what I wrote another member:

Turpentine seeds work great as rootstocks as long as theyíre not already grafted and containerized. I actually use a different Turpentine rootstock from Leo Manuelís tree as rootstocks. There may be genetic factors that are triggered by Floridaís warm weather and then when those trees reach SoCal, it is difficult for the trees to acclimate to the cooler weather.

The more vigorous varieties perform fine on Florida Turpentine rootstock. They still have some dropping issues and also get gummosis however.

Iím willing to bet that Florida Turpentine seeds planted in SoCal will grow great as long as they are planted as seeds of ungrafted seedlings and have not been potbound.

Simon

palingkecil

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2020, 01:20:21 AM »
Letís not get words mixed here Frank, if you read through my posts, youíll find out that I actually use Leoís Turpentine fruit as rootstocks.

As I mentioned before, there are many different kinds of Mangos that are called ďTurpentineĒ. Typically these Mangos are vigorous and seem more tolerant of salinity. These Turpentine trees typically form smaller fruits that often form in clusters on the panicle. The fruit is typically fibrous but some actually have excellent flavor.

I posted pictures of Leoís Turpentine Mango fruits several years and he says they work great as rootstocks and that is why I have tested them and they perform great, just like most seedlings.

Iím willing to bet that if we were given Florida Turpentine seeds and planted them in SoCal, they would grow great here.

I hypothesize that something happens to the trees in the containers, perhaps some of the trees that are being sent to us is pot bound or they get acclimated to the warm weather in Florida and triggers something on the genetic level that makes it struggle when planted in our cooler climate.

Hereís what I wrote another member:

Turpentine seeds work great as rootstocks as long as theyíre not already grafted and containerized. I actually use a different Turpentine rootstock from Leo Manuelís tree as rootstocks. There may be genetic factors that are triggered by Floridaís warm weather and then when those trees reach SoCal, it is difficult for the trees to acclimate to the cooler weather.

The more vigorous varieties perform fine on Florida Turpentine rootstock. They still have some dropping issues and also get gummosis however.

Iím willing to bet that Florida Turpentine seeds planted in SoCal will grow great as long as they are planted as seeds of ungrafted seedlings and have not been potbound.

Simon

Great discussion here! After I read this I start thinking maybe it is not only mango tree that does not perform well if grafted and containerized from Florida. I have about 10 different figs, the grafted ones that I bought from a local fig lovers here are doing really well, super healthy, and do not get affected by our heat wave. But the grafted ones I got from mail orders from Florida and Ohio do not perform well. They are actually droopy and struggle under the California sun. I am a newbie with very little experience here, but your theory might also apply to the grafted fig tree.

Ant21

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2020, 03:04:22 AM »
I am not an expert by any chance but from my observation at least in my area manila rootstock mangoes does very well. Florida turpentine will survive but very slow grower and tend to flowers at least the 1st couple of years instead of growing flushes. My alphonso now is still small in height but the main trunk has gotten big and now steady. What I am saying is it take a little more time for turpentine to adjust here in Cali. I just bought a grafted keitt @ Lowes and a manila mango I will be using to graft a coconut cream and LZ in to it.

knlim000

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2020, 09:48:13 AM »
Hey Simon
I've also been experimenting and observing rootstocks for a decade here in socal and I think yr conclusion is way off. You are comparing Leo's seedlings to Florida's turpentine grafted trees. If you were really listening to Leo he would be the first to tell you turpentine rootstock is the best for our climate and if you take the time to study,  the largest commercial mango orchard in the USA, in the Coachella Valley, you would learn that their Keitt mangos are thriving on turpentine rootstock.....if you don't believe me they are on turpentine ask Har he was working for Zill in the late 80's when they fill the order for Mr. Marguleas of Sun World. I agree that perhaps folks, from socal, in the forum kill their Florida turpies for being inexperience and not having the proper microclimate for mangos to thrive. There is also other factor like transportation and transplant shock to consider. The fact is Simon, grafted trees on manila type rootstock droop as much as turpentine. The only advantage we have with the manila type rootstock is that they are more vigorous but in the long run they have the same issues with gummosis and phopmosis(root rot). I would suggest you reach out to gary matsuoka owner of laguna hills nursery he's been growing mangos in coastal orange county for years and hes an expert on California rootstook. As my mentor Eunice Messner use to tell me" Frank, mangos are doable in Socal but it's not easy" and she grew mangos in Anaheim Hills for over 40 years until her death.   

I grafted on to Homedepot manila rootstock and it die on my.  2nd home depot rootstock is not doing that great, very slow, maybe I grafted too many onto it.  3rd HD manila rootstock  is leggy, and some branches are dying. 4th HD manila rootstock has lemon zest graft on it, this is the best looking out of all the HD manila rootstock.
Bought about 30l Florida tree, some  died and some survive.  Lemon zest is the best looking and it's got a few fruits after 5yrs in outdoor weather unprotected. Mallika is going great and blooming like crazy. We're getting some atmospheric rain this week, not good for the flowers.
Still trying to figure out what is best for the mango to thrive up in northern CA Bay Area.

Maybe it's root bound as someone mentioned. I got a mail order from Thailand of a "green mango"(I think keosavy), it came without any soils, just a stick with some roots on it.  I planted it immediately and it grows very well.  This the best tasting mango for me.  I love green mango .  It's sweet, crunch, smells very good. I keep wanting more after eating it.

rliou

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2020, 01:44:23 PM »
I have half my yard planted with turpentine rootstock trees from Florida and the other half I planted manilla.  For the manilla rootstock planted immediately next to the florida tree, I have noticed the trunk grows about 2x as fast.  I think Simon has a good point about possibly rootbound trees being sent to us from Florida as I have several varieties that did well from Florida (VP and Lemon zest).  The florida rootstocks tend to be more susceptible to die back in the winter though so I am not sure if it is rootstock dependent. 

The thing to keep in mind is that tuerpentine rootstocks from Florida are not all the same just as not all manilla rootstocks are the same in California.  My understanding is that these are just polyembrionic seeds and not a true clonal rootstock.    So I don't think we can ever settle this debate.  I do have 2 trees where I approach graft the bases from turpentine and manilla to see if they get the best of both worlds.    So far though the manilla side of the base is outgrowing the turpentine side.  So take it for what is worth in my small sample size of 2.

Robert

Robert

JF

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2020, 02:50:12 PM »
Letís not get words mixed here Frank, if you read through my posts, youíll find out that I actually use Leoís Turpentine fruit as rootstocks.

As I mentioned before, there are many different kinds of Mangos that are called ďTurpentineĒ. Typically these Mangos are vigorous and seem more tolerant of salinity. These Turpentine trees typically form smaller fruits that often form in clusters on the panicle. The fruit is typically fibrous but some actually have excellent flavor.

I posted pictures of Leoís Turpentine Mango fruits several years and he says they work great as rootstocks and that is why I have tested them and they perform great, just like most seedlings.

Iím willing to bet that if we were given Florida Turpentine seeds and planted them in SoCal, they would grow great here.

I hypothesize that something happens to the trees in the containers, perhaps some of the trees that are being sent to us is pot bound or they get acclimated to the warm weather in Florida and triggers something on the genetic level that makes it struggle when planted in our cooler climate.

Hereís what I wrote another member:

Turpentine seeds work great as rootstocks as long as theyíre not already grafted and containerized. I actually use a different Turpentine rootstock from Leo Manuelís tree as rootstocks. There may be genetic factors that are triggered by Floridaís warm weather and then when those trees reach SoCal, it is difficult for the trees to acclimate to the cooler weather.

The more vigorous varieties perform fine on Florida Turpentine rootstock. They still have some dropping issues and also get gummosis however.

Iím willing to bet that Florida Turpentine seeds planted in SoCal will grow great as long as they are planted as seeds of ungrafted seedlings and have not been potbound.

Simon

simon, I'm not mixing words. I want clarification from you, it seems like you backtrack on turpentine rootstock since I point out Sun World has over 50 acres of keitt mangos on florida rootstocks. They are not the only ones, you remember our friend Gary in Palm springs? He has beautiful Florida mango trees growing in the desert. I agree that manila type rootstock are hardier but disagree that many many many Florida trees failed in our climate. I've had a few trees from Florida that have died thru the years but also the same amount on manila type rootstoock......must be our warmer and milder microclimate in Orange County. Lets just say transit shock and root bound trees struggle when we transplant them here. I've also had excellent results on corriente(turpentine) rootstock from Mexico.....the grafts take well and grow vigorously. With respect to turpentine seeds  they make great rootstocks. I've grown and fruited No.11 on some of my mango trees branches and used them as rootstock, they work great for us.
   

simon_grow

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2020, 05:35:35 PM »
No back tracking from me, let me start a list of posts that have date stamps and my exact words.

First, a discussion on rootstocks with some links to some good scholarly articles on Mango rootstocks.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

Hereís a big piece of the puzzle, please note reply #2 on this thread below.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0

I could continue this on and on as I save my posts but the reason why I started all these topics is to help myself and other Mango growers out there successfully grow Mangos in SoCal and hopefully elsewhere.

I have spent countless hours writing up my posts, always trying my best to collect as much data before posting a topic. I gladly invite constructive criticism but will fiercely defend myself if I know someone is accidentally or purposely misinterpreting my words.

My hope is to improve Mango production in SoCal and I hope to be part of the solution by finding out what the primary issues are and how to circumvent them. We should be spending our time working together and gathering more data.

Iíve stated this many times before but Iíll say it again, specific varieties of Mangos grow fine on Florida Turpentine rootstocks, namely the more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart, etc....

There have just been too many members sending me personal messages to ignore the fact that many of the Florida trees eventually succumb to some issue or disease and die. Iíve literally answered hundreds of pms of members that send me pictures or give me descriptions of their dying trees and how to save them.

That is the reason I started the thread on how to grow Mangos in SoCal.

Itís been crazy home schooling my kids and working full time and helping out at the orchard but when I have time, Iíll update the post with more recent info.

Simon

FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2020, 06:31:55 PM »
The peach cobbler on turpentine I bought from Frank (JF) last summer at his Florida mango tasting was put in the ground against a west facing wall a couple weeks after the tasting (late July/early August) I made sure not to overwater it, and didnít add much fertilizer. It didnít grow at all. This winter it died. I am approx 3 1/2 mi from the ocean and we donít get that much of a marine layer that you will see closer to the coast. There is almost a constant breeze from the ocean. Our summers are very mild with highs never really getting above 85 degrees, in contrast, when itís 85 here, itís probably closer to 95-100 degrees at Franks place where the mango tasting was in La Habra, and I believe where JF is having some success on turpentine. La Habra is approx 30 miles inland from my home. I also had a Coconut Cream on turpentine from Florida in a pot that lived for for a couple years, didnít grow at all, and eventually died. My two Kent seeds I planted directly into the ground last summer (thanks Simon for the suggestion) are flushing beautifully right now and didnít get any powder mildew through the winter, Iím looking forward to grafting onto these guys when they get bigger. I will never buy another Florida mango tree. Cheers.

Kent seed planted directly into the ground

Kent seed planted directly into a pot

Nate Dogg

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2020, 07:18:05 PM »
I concur with Simon regarding the problems with turpentine rootstock in our area.  I have tried growing both trees on grafted Manila/Ataulfo and Turpentine with the same variety. JF (Frank) experience and opinion is a minority point of view on this forum but if it works for him that's great.  Over the years I have found three key factors in Succesful mango growing in SoCal. 

1.  Choosing a vigorous growing variety. Cac, Coco cream, Sweet Tart, Buttercream, Seacrest, Orange Sherbet, Lemon Zest, Fruit Punch ext. Avoid slow-growing mangos like Ice Cream, Kesar, Julie, Dot, Pina Colada exct (do your homework).

2.  Choosing the best rootstock for our area. For me, the Mexican varieties work best. I particularly like Ataulfo grown from seed but Manila also works well. Kent is also OK but I still prefer Ataulfo as it is the fastest-growing for me. 

3.  Planting in the right soil to maximize mango growth.  Sandy Loam soil with 15% pumice works the best based on my experience. Clay soil works the least well. If you have clay soil the mango tree will still grow but at a much-reduced rate. It's harder for the small fibers of the mango tree roots to penetrate clay soil vs more of sandy soil.  Drainage is also much better with sandy loam soil. The mix I like and have been using for over the years is 65% sandy loam, 20% course washed sand, and about 15% pumice. I buy these items in bulk.   

All three items listed above are equally important but the third item is often overlooked. 

Also as a tip do not let young trees set fruit as it takes energy away from foliage production.

Here is a photo I just took today of my sweet-tart on Manila that was grafted 3 1/2 years ago. It has small fruit forming now. This is the first year I will let the fruit hang and mature. My focus for the first three years was on growth.

Johnny


Sweet Tart on Manila (3.5-year-old)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 07:59:59 PM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2020, 09:20:34 PM »
I concur with Simon regarding the problems with turpentine rootstock in our area.  I have tried growing both trees on grafted Manila/Ataulfo and Turpentine with the same variety. JF (Frank) experience and opinion is a minority point of view on this forum but if it works for him that's great.  Over the years I have found three key factors in Succesful mango growing in SoCal. 

1.  Choosing a vigorous growing variety. Cac, Coco cream, Sweet Tart, Buttercream, Seacrest, Orange Sherbet, Lemon Zest, Fruit Punch ext. Avoid slow-growing mangos like Ice Cream, Kesar, Julie, Dot, Pina Colada exct (do your homework).

2.  Choosing the best rootstock for our area. For me, the Mexican varieties work best. I particularly like Ataulfo grown from seed but Manila also works well. Kent is also OK but I still prefer Ataulfo as it is the fastest-growing for me. 

3.  Planting in the right soil to maximize mango growth.  Sandy Loam soil with 15% pumice works the best based on my experience. Clay soil works the least well. If you have clay soil the mango tree will still grow but at a much-reduced rate. It's harder for the small fibers of the mango tree roots to penetrate clay soil vs more of sandy soil.  Drainage is also much better with sandy loam soil. The mix I like and have been using for over the years is 65% sandy loam, 20% course washed sand, and about 15% pumice. I buy these items in bulk.   

All three items listed above are equally important but the third item is often overlooked. 

Also as a tip do not let young trees set fruit as it takes energy away from foliage production.

Here is a photo I just took today of my sweet-tart on Manila that was grafted 3 1/2 years ago. It has small fruit forming now. This is the first year I will let the fruit hang and mature. My focus for the first three years was on growth.

Johnny


Sweet Tart on Manila (3.5-year-old)

Nice tree Johnny and thanks for the great info. Does your Sweet Tart on Manila get any powder mildew?
Nate Dogg

Oolie

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2020, 09:28:34 PM »
I've been getting PM even on the varieties purported to be resistant.

That said I've been looking for an appropriate Indian spice type mango to grow down here.

It seems that J-12 may be the answer, both trees (Florida rootstock and grafted by me) both appear to be growing well, limiting their flowering to an amount that won't stunt them, and actually setting fruit despite all the PM on the bloom. Val-Carrie on the other hand seems somewhat sensitive and is reblooming profusely. If VC starts putting out vegetative growth I may change my opinion, but it seems unwilling to do so so far, despite temps remaining in the high 70's/ low 80's at night.

Hopefully Itamaraca is a more vigorous Kesar.

JF

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2020, 10:40:05 PM »
No back tracking from me, let me start a list of posts that have date stamps and my exact words.

First, a discussion on rootstocks with some links to some good scholarly articles on Mango rootstocks.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

Hereís a big piece of the puzzle, please note reply #2 on this thread below.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0

I could continue this on and on as I save my posts but the reason why I started all these topics is to help myself and other Mango growers out there successfully grow Mangos in SoCal and hopefully elsewhere.

I have spent countless hours writing up my posts, always trying my best to collect as much data before posting a topic. I gladly invite constructive criticism but will fiercely defend myself if I know someone is accidentally or purposely misinterpreting my words.

My hope is to improve Mango production in SoCal and I hope to be part of the solution by finding out what the primary issues are and how to circumvent them. We should be spending our time working together and gathering more data.

Iíve stated this many times before but Iíll say it again, specific varieties of Mangos grow fine on Florida Turpentine rootstocks, namely the more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart, etc....

There have just been too many members sending me personal messages to ignore the fact that many of the Florida trees eventually succumb to some issue or disease and die. Iíve literally answered hundreds of pms of members that send me pictures or give me descriptions of their dying trees and how to save them.

That is the reason I started the thread on how to grow Mangos in SoCal.

Itís been crazy home schooling my kids and working full time and helping out at the orchard but when I have time, Iíll update the post with more recent info.

Simon


Hey Simon
You have excellent educational mango posts that have help legions of folks that have embarked on this journey to grow mangos in Socal,.. it has been noted and appreciated. I also have an extensive resume on this forum w over 12,000 pix in the forum archives, photobucket and Gardenweb. Along this 11 year project, I have procure and grafted over 500 tropical fruit trees for 6 backyard orchards that I designed so I feel quite confidence with the information I provide. I have answer countless of questions and provided help for anyone that's ask...I mention this because you've decided to bring up yr contributions in this thread. I also want to remind you that Gary, Tim, Ethan and I were one of the original socal members when Sheehan and Pat started this forum back in 2012.....i can go on and on but there is no point, we will leave it at that. I want to make one suggestion, if you are really serious about collecting data, you should do what Roger Meyers did back in the 90's. He partner up with our local CRFG club and bought hundreds of mangos from Pine Island ( 2 semi trucks deliver to his home in FV). He tried to keep a log of the progress of the mangos but folks never followed up and he loss interest after a year.

Nate

sorry to hear about yr peach cobbler, you seem to be a serious grower I wouldn't give up. I'm surprise because I consider you are in one of the best mango growing zone in socal. I worked 36 years in that area and I have three of my business partners that live in tustin, santa ana and garden grove. Combine they loss one(1) Florida turpentine tree a PPK and that was to due to santa ana winds. In fact, my good friend Roger Meyes lived in FV across Mile square park and he had maybe a dozen Florida turpentine mangos growing in his yard. Good luck w your kent seedlings.

FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2020, 11:40:07 PM »
Thanks Frank! Iíd love to know the secret to your business partners success with turpentine in my area? Iíve only been growing seriously for about three years, still lots to learn...I appreciate all the advice you offer and hopefully one day Iíll have the knowledge to grow mangos successfully because they are so damn tasty! And theyíre my sons favorite fruit. Hope all is groovy, take care my friend. Btw your mango tasting was epic last year, I swear I had the taste of mango on my palate into the evening 😋
Nate Dogg

simon_grow

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2020, 02:40:44 PM »
Frank, you were one of the pioneers that got me interested in Mangos and without your guidance and introducing me to other pioneers in the Mango world, I probably wouldnít even have a mango tree in my yard right now.

You have vast knowledge of Mangos, Annonas and other fruit trees and I greatly appreciate all the recommendations and advice you have given me over the years.

The Florida Turpentine rootstock trees do have a purpose. For example, people that donít know how to graft can purchase a Florida tree and not have to worry about learning how to graft. Also, for me personally, I purchase Florida Turpentine rootstock trees when there is a new variety out and scions arenít available. I keep my Florida trees in pots and grow them out to use for their scions. My last Florida tree I purchased was a Cotton Candy.

Hopefully everyone out there with Florida trees will be successful with them but if you are not, donít give up. Try planting various random mango seeds from fruit you eat at the supermarkets and hopefully some will grow vigorously for you.

I highly recommend growing out seeds of the following varieties: Sweet Tart, NDM, Orange Sherbet, Valencia Pride, Kent, Haden, Tommy Atkins, Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne.

Simon

K-Rimes

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2020, 04:25:30 PM »
This thread has been extremely valuable, especially the tips about not growing in potting soil. My diamond grafted mango has been absolutely living it up producing prolific blooms this year and thickening up nicely on the trunk... But I will certainly be repotting it in a mix of pumice, sand, and topper as soon as I get home from this trip to AZ.

There is another fellow in SB who I've been communicating with and it seems his are really slow compared to mine - and I chalk that up to being in a more "hot desert" climate, even though not many miles from the beach as the crow flies (2200' and at peak of mountain will do that I guess). It seems to me that people who live in places with regular marine layer and the humidity it brings with it have many more fungal issues. I swear, my pots will crank up to 110+ temp so maybe it's fries the fungal stuff inside them?

Can anyone chime in if chunky perlite or stone will serve the same purpose as pumice? I can't seem to find a good source locally.

hawkfish007

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2020, 05:29:03 PM »

Can anyone chime in if chunky perlite or stone will serve the same purpose as pumice? I can't seem to find a good source locally.

Benefit of using pumice is that it can hold moisture out of the three while providing other benefits. Perlite will provide aeration, will help to reduce compaction but it tends to float up due to its weight. I am guessing rocks will provide some aeration and will help to reduce compaction as well. Pumice will definitely help during our 100+F days by retaining moisture, but will never degrade or create anaerobic condition. I stocked up on pumice for $9/50 lb bag in the past from zenhydro.

K-Rimes

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2020, 06:07:36 PM »

Can anyone chime in if chunky perlite or stone will serve the same purpose as pumice? I can't seem to find a good source locally.

Benefit of using pumice is that it can hold moisture out of the three while providing other benefits. Perlite will provide aeration, will help to reduce compaction but it tends to float up due to its weight. I am guessing rocks will provide some aeration and will help to reduce compaction as well. Pumice will definitely help during our 100+F days by retaining moisture, but will never degrade or create anaerobic condition. I stocked up on pumice for $9/50 lb bag in the past from zenhydro.

Makes an abundance of sense - I think I found a good source here in SB and will be doing the same, 50lb bag. I have 3-4 large mangoes to pot up - do you recommend putting them in a 25 gallon pot straight from a 7 or 15 gallon? I could definitely enjoy not having to up pot again later on.

hawkfish007

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2020, 06:26:12 PM »

Can anyone chime in if chunky perlite or stone will serve the same purpose as pumice? I can't seem to find a good source locally.

Benefit of using pumice is that it can hold moisture out of the three while providing other benefits. Perlite will provide aeration, will help to reduce compaction but it tends to float up due to its weight. I am guessing rocks will provide some aeration and will help to reduce compaction as well. Pumice will definitely help during our 100+F days by retaining moisture, but will never degrade or create anaerobic condition. I stocked up on pumice for $9/50 lb bag in the past from zenhydro.

Makes an abundance of sense - I think I found a good source here in SB and will be doing the same, 50lb bag. I have 3-4 large mangoes to pot up - do you recommend putting them in a 25 gallon pot straight from a 7 or 15 gallon? I could definitely enjoy not having to up pot again later on.

I would definitely recommend to up pot them in 25 gal or up depending on their sizes. Because once you start using sand, top soil and pumice mix, it gets almost impossible to move by one person even a 15 gal pot. I forgot to mention in my previous posts, I also add 1 scoop of Azomite per Cuft of sand/soil. They are cheap at Crop Production Services ~$19/40 lb bag. I up potted my 15 gal Pickering in to a 45 gal pot so I don't have to up pot it again any time soon.

JF

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2020, 11:43:24 PM »
Frank, you were one of the pioneers that got me interested in Mangos and without your guidance and introducing me to other pioneers in the Mango world, I probably wouldnít even have a mango tree in my yard right now.

You have vast knowledge of Mangos, Annonas and other fruit trees and I greatly appreciate all the recommendations and advice you have given me over the years.

The Florida Turpentine rootstock trees do have a purpose. For example, people that donít know how to graft can purchase a Florida tree and not have to worry about learning how to graft. Also, for me personally, I purchase Florida Turpentine rootstock trees when there is a new variety out and scions arenít available. I keep my Florida trees in pots and grow them out to use for their scions. My last Florida tree I purchased was a Cotton Candy.

Hopefully everyone out there with Florida trees will be successful with them but if you are not, donít give up. Try planting various random mango seeds from fruit you eat at the supermarkets and hopefully some will grow vigorously for you.

I highly recommend growing out seeds of the following varieties: Sweet Tart, NDM, Orange Sherbet, Valencia Pride, Kent, Haden, Tommy Atkins, Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne.

Simon

Hey Simon
I have the upmost respect for you. Good friends sometimes have small disagreements and thatís ok. I leave you with another Florida turpentine PPK thatís been in the ground for 3 years doing very well.

Nate
I worked in FV in the early 80ís and saw a lot of new home being build. Builders would dump their debris before laying out the topsoil.  I have a friend that live in FV that found slabs of concrete when he started planting his trees. Before I can advice you I need know what type of soil yr working. You can always text me Nate, you have my cell number.

PPK on Florida rootstock 3 year in ground


Pnguyen

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Re: Update on my mango trees So. Cal area
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2020, 06:44:59 PM »
I bought a 5 gallon NDM from a local nursery.  I am not sure of the root stock. It looked terrible after few weeks.  I thought it is going to die.  After much reading from this forum, I took the risk on the $85 NDM by removing all of the soil and rinse the root.  I then re-potted with with 1/3 sand, 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 perlite with some charcoal and organic  fertilizer. For months, it does not do anything.  I thought I am kissing my $$ goodbye.  However, in the last two weeks, the NDM give 3 new growth with about 6" each. 

I strongly believe the combined knowledge of the members on this forum is incredible. I will try to replace peat moss with pumice next repotting adventurer.

 

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