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Author Topic: Sulphur  (Read 822 times)

SeaWalnut

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Sulphur
« on: May 20, 2020, 08:55:14 PM »
Lets talk about sulphur used as both,an antifungic and as an amendment to lower the ph of the soil.
I buy it marketed as an antifungic and i use it to lower the ph of the soil.
2 things ive learned so far:
- it kills Mycorrhizae simbiotic fungi.
- never mix it deep into the soil and never add it on the bottom of the hole before planting because it will be used by anaerobic bacteria and it will possibly kill the tree producing hidrogen sulphide just like in the Death valley.
I use it only on top of the soil where aerobic bacteria breaks it down and leaches the acid into the soil.

To make it work faster for bacteria to break down the sulphur its a good idea to buy sulphur that has nitrogen added to it because the bacteria blooms faster if it has a little nitrogen( i would also add a little sugar or vinegar as a carbon source for the bacteria but i didnt tryed this iet).
Urea pellets coated in sulphur i think are branded Osmocote ( this is a wide range of fertilisers brand but sulphur coated urea made them famous from what ive read),have both elements but i buy dirt cheap antifungic powdered sulphur wich also has both elements plus magnesium.

Altough its such a good soil amendment to lower the ph i dont see manny people using this and it also shows on the market as i couldnt find sulphur branded as a product to lower the ph here.
I think manny people will learn from this forum .

KarenRei

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 10:19:40 AM »
Nice tips  :)
Jß, Úg er a­ rŠkta su­rŠnar pl÷ntur ß ═slandi. Nei, Úg er ekki klikku­. JŠja, kannski...

NateTheGreat

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 10:45:32 AM »
Altough its such a good soil amendment to lower the ph i dont see manny people using this and it also shows on the market as i couldnt find sulphur branded as a product to lower the ph here.
I think manny people will learn from this forum .
Here is one: https://www.amazon.com/Espoma-UL30-Acidifier-Fertilizer-Multicolor/dp/B00YOVQXTS

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 10:50:46 AM »
how do you know it's killing mycorrhizae? I sure hope it's not, because...

I have been using elemental sulfur for a couple years as it's about the only way to lower soil pH. the manufacturers suggest working it into the soil versus solely doing as a top-dressing because the bacteria cannot access it nearly as much on the soil surface.

I have added it to the backfill when planting pawpaw trees and so far no ill effects. It is not a macronutrient, so i feel safe using as a backfill amendment rather than compost or fertilizer which i would not do.

Vernmented

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 11:08:14 AM »
I have rebuilt my entire soil profile by renting a large auger and tilling after. I had mucky soil around 7.2 that I ground in loads of biochar and pelletized sulfur among other things and everything is going nuts. I also acidify my well water with sulfuric acid (battery acid) quite often. Whether or not it killed of the mycorrhizal fungus or not I can't prove but damaging the and rebuilding the soil would have done that anyway. Lots of mulch and high density planting with lots of earthworms and other soil ecology and plenty of mushrooms popping up. I'm sure there is plenty of mycorrhizae repopulating. I have also top dressed multiple times with pelletized sulfur.
-Josh

Guanabanus

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 01:11:58 PM »
As I have never done microscopy to study mycorrhizae, I wouldn't know how much is present before and after my surface treatments with pelletized elemental sulfur.

I don't recall ever having incorporated or buried it, so I don't know the effects of that.
Har

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 01:57:13 PM »
It kills Mycorrhizae because sulphur its a powerfull antifungic.
I allready said that i use the sulphur wich is sold as antifungic not as an amendment to lower ph.

Vernmented

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 03:04:15 PM »
It kills Mycorrhizae because sulphur its a powerfull antifungic.
I allready said that i use the sulphur wich is sold as antifungic not as an amendment to lower ph.

How do you know it killed mycorrhizae? Sulfur pushed 14 - 16 inches into my soil profile didn't kill my trees. I must have read the original post wrong because it sounded like you were using the antifungal sulfur to drop your pH even though that is off label use. Would the sulfuric acid water treatment kill fungus because I have a ton of mushrooms popping up?
-Josh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 03:11:28 PM »
It kills Mycorrhizae because sulphur its a powerfull antifungic.
I allready said that i use the sulphur wich is sold as antifungic not as an amendment to lower ph.

How do you know it killed mycorrhizae? Sulfur pushed 14 - 16 inches into my soil profile didn't kill my trees. I must have read the original post wrong because it sounded like you were using the antifungal sulfur to drop your pH even though that is off label use. Would the sulfuric acid water treatment kill fungus because I have a ton of mushrooms popping up?
Read wikipedia avout sulphur being a verry strong antifungic
known for thousands of years .
I also use it to kill mold,to disinfect wine barrels,beehives,etc.
Water treated with sulphuric acid its not antifungal because this is a strong acid and verry little its used to lower the ph.
Also, sulphuric acid its not sulphur,its sulphuric acid.
I use elemental sulphur to lower the ph not sulphuric acid.

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 03:33:04 PM »
It is not a powerful antifungal. Sulfur spraying is considered a preventative to stop fungal spores from germinating and not recommended to cure an existing fungal infection. On the surface of a leaf, spores must directly contact elemental sulfur to work as a preventative. Elemental sulfur does not dissolve well in water and does not travel through soil. If soil is high pH, the general rule is to mix elemental sulfur into the soil before planting.  Elemental sulfur must be converted by soil bacteria into sulfuric acid for it to change pH and move through the soil.
Brandon

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 04:58:39 PM »
It kills Mycorrhizae because sulphur its a powerfull antifungic.
I allready said that i use the sulphur wich is sold as antifungic not as an amendment to lower ph.

How do you know it killed mycorrhizae? Sulfur pushed 14 - 16 inches into my soil profile didn't kill my trees. I must have read the original post wrong because it sounded like you were using the antifungal sulfur to drop your pH even though that is off label use. Would the sulfuric acid water treatment kill fungus because I have a ton of mushrooms popping up?
Read wikipedia avout sulphur being a verry strong antifungic
known for thousands of years .
I also use it to kill mold,to disinfect wine barrels,beehives,etc.
Water treated with sulphuric acid its not antifungal because this is a strong acid and verry little its used to lower the ph.
Also, sulphuric acid its not sulphur,its sulphuric acid.
I use elemental sulphur to lower the ph not sulphuric acid.

I understand the theory behind what you are saying but many times that doesn't translate into real growing experiences. I have used massive amounts of elemental sulfur both augered deep into the soil and top dressed with positive results and still have multiple species of fungus popping up. I don't have any testing or imaging for mycorrhizae but I am sure it is still out there.

All I am saying is my direct experience is the opposite of what you were saying in the original post. Elemental sulfur could reduce fungus but in my case there is plenty and my trees are healthy.

How did you test for lack of mycorrhizae? Did you kill plants with sulfur in the soil?
-Josh

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 05:31:02 PM »
When soil is kept flooded, elemental sulfur can form hydrogen sulfide, which can kill plant roots.
 
https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/files/Lowering_Soil_pH_with_Sulfur.pdf

Brandon

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2020, 06:53:31 PM »
When soil is kept flooded, elemental sulfur can form hydrogen sulfide, which can kill plant roots.
 
https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/files/Lowering_Soil_pH_with_Sulfur.pdf
Thats why its good to add it only on top and not in the hole.
If it is in a well aerated layer it will not turn to hidrogen sulphide.

Triloba Tracker

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 09:15:30 PM »
Thanks for the link, Brandon (nice to hear from you, by the way)

That confirms for me that i am ok when adding some in the native soil backfill when planting trees.


Guanabanus

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 09:24:33 PM »
Elemental Sulfur on plant serfaces prevents germination of spores of various Powdery Mildew species.  It does little to nothing against already germinated spores or existing infections of Powdery Mildew.  It does little to nothing against Anthracnose, or many other species of fungi.
Har

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 09:39:30 PM »
Elemental Sulfur on plant serfaces prevents germination of spores of various Powdery Mildew species.  It does little to nothing against already germinated spores or existing infections of Powdery Mildew.  It does little to nothing against Anthracnose, or many other species of fungi.
I dont reccomend to use sulphur and Mycorrhizae supplements in same hole at the same time.
Its a waste of monney because it will kill the mycorhizae wich is expensive.
Also sulphur kills manny types of fungus and its verry strong  compared to Captan and by fumigations probably beats Captan.
Adding sulphur to the soil to lower the ph its not as strong as fumigations but will kill mycorrhizae no doubt about that.
There is not even understud by scientists how does sulphur kills fungus but its certain it does it and its sold as a powerfull antifungic.
On the label of my sulphur bags there was a long list of types of fungus it kills but unfortunatedly i dont have any bag left because i used all the sulphur and throwed them to garbage.

SouthBayHapaJoe

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2020, 01:38:01 AM »
Sulfur is not an anti fungal. Sulfur is essential to ALL life and forms important amino acids which makes up proteins.

lebmung

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2020, 10:12:26 AM »
There is a difference between sulphur on the leaves and sulphur applied to soil. Small particles in soil get oxidised fast thus its fungicidal activity is neutralized, you need to apply a lot of it to kill fungi in soil, and it will kill your plants too. Sulfur applied in soil doesn't even kill phyto or fusarium, so it's a very weak fungicide. Black mould loves the elemental sulphur!
By the way if you have a low pH AM won't colonize.
AM is cheap to make at home if you know how to do it! Google it, there is a lot of info out there.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:51:03 PM by lebmung »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2020, 04:46:06 PM »
Sulfur is not an anti fungal. Sulfur is essential to ALL life and forms important amino acids which makes up proteins.
You are right but you missed the point of the forum.
This is about using inorganic sulphur,elemental sulphur ,to add it to the soil for lowering the ph.
We are not talking about the role of inorganic sulphur for life forms in wich case even fungi use organic sulphur compounds to kill bacteria( known as antibiotics) ,plants use sulphur compounds to kill fungi and so on.
Antibiotics if you remember,are yellow dust wich smell like sulphur but off course they are organic substances and the forum is not about organic chemistry .
It is also a verry verry strong antifungic used in medicine and to treat orchards.
Its used to sterilise vine barrels,beehives ,treat fruit trees against  the most strongest fungus and its the reason why the apples from supermarket last for a year or so before they are sold on the market.

lebmung

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 05:59:23 PM »

Its used to sterilise vine barrels,beehives ,treat fruit trees against  the most strongest fungus and its the reason why the apples from supermarket last for a year or so before they are sold on the market.

Sorry to tell you but you got all wrong about elemental suphur.
Sulphur doesn't sterilize anything! Try to sterilize test tubes and you will have a nice mould colony growing!
What you do it's burning it in a closed environment where it consumes the oxygen then insects or other aerobic microorganism die. 

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 07:14:50 PM »
Here is what these guys say about sulphur.Its a fungicide recognised for 51 crops in USA.
Who else says this is not a fungicide just spreads disinformation wich is common now a days with all the conspiration theories followers.
https://buildasoil.com/products/micronized-sulfur?variant=42159807570

As for Lebmung,i dont even answer you because you like to argue in my forums and i dont have time to waste my breath and educate you about the subject.

Vernmented

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 07:32:14 PM »
Lets talk about sulphur used as both,an antifungic and as an amendment to lower the ph of the soil.
I buy it marketed as an antifungic and i use it to lower the ph of the soil.
2 things ive learned so far:
- it kills Mycorrhizae simbiotic fungi.
- never mix it deep into the soil and never add it on the bottom of the hole before planting because it will be used by anaerobic bacteria and it will possibly kill the tree producing hidrogen sulphide just like in the Death valley.
I use it only on top of the soil where aerobic bacteria breaks it down and leaches the acid into the soil.

To make it work faster for bacteria to break down the sulphur its a good idea to buy sulphur that has nitrogen added to it because the bacteria blooms faster if it has a little nitrogen( i would also add a little sugar or vinegar as a carbon source for the bacteria but i didnt tryed this iet).
Urea pellets coated in sulphur i think are branded Osmocote ( this is a wide range of fertilisers brand but sulphur coated urea made them famous from what ive read),have both elements but i buy dirt cheap antifungic powdered sulphur wich also has both elements plus magnesium.

Altough its such a good soil amendment to lower the ph i dont see manny people using this and it also shows on the market as i couldnt find sulphur branded as a product to lower the ph here.
I think manny people will learn from this forum .

This should read "Let me tell you about sulphur used as both,an antifungic and as an amendment to lower the ph of the soil." 

LOL

I wasn't telling you that you are completely wrong, just that in my experience with heavy applications of elemental sulfur on surface and deep into the soil profile I have had beneficial results and loads of fungal activity. I won't comment on your threads anymore.
-Josh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 07:48:24 PM »

 I won't comment on your threads anymore.
[/quote]

There is always room for debate in my threads and your always welcome to comment even if your opinion difers from my opinion.No worry about that, but common sence should be used and we all can learn from otthers experiences.
There is a difference from having a different opinion than me wich i can respect  and mocking my thread wich i cant respect.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 07:50:22 PM by SeaWalnut »

lebmung

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Re: Sulphur
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2020, 04:56:55 PM »
Here is what these guys say about sulphur.Its a fungicide recognised for 51 crops in USA.
Who else says this is not a fungicide just spreads disinformation wich is common now a days with all the conspiration theories followers.
https://buildasoil.com/products/micronized-sulfur?variant=42159807570

As for Lebmung,i dont even answer you because you like to argue in my forums and i dont have time to waste my breath and educate you about the subject.

I don't like to argue, I like the science not the internet art, this is the way false information spreads.
Sulphur doesn't act like a fungicide in soil!!!



 

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