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Author Topic: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove  (Read 1758 times)

nepatriot

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Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« on: June 26, 2020, 11:52:12 AM »
Hello folks, we zeroed in on the above locations for a Mango grove. Any inputs which one is better in terms of climate/soil? It's going to be a lot of young plants. Need some inputs. Also any good grove maintenance companies in these locations you can suggest.

HFruitgrower

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 01:51:46 PM »

FMfruitforest

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 08:42:42 PM »
Better dirt in Bookelia I bet, ive read there’s not much topsoil in homestead

johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2020, 08:17:26 AM »
Did you really do your homework well?  I'd go back to the drawing boards.  The realities in Florida are changing rapidly.  The streets of Miami Beach are already literally underwater and having to be raised.  Both of your locations seem to me too low-lying and/or close to the coast, and you can expect the ocean or salt-water to start intruding in years to come.  Why not higher ground?  Many locations in south central Florida might be suitable as winter temperatures aren't dipping down like they used to.  In this area, which includes Homestead, mango trees seem unreliable and are setting fruit in an irregular manner, due to our weird unreliable "winter" weather.  Just trying to be helpful.  I'd hate to see you make a huge mistake.  The weather is much different here than when I first moved in 1988. (I understand the political debate concerning climate change--and Al Gore is an opportunistic jerk living in his mansion consuming twenty times the electricity as the average American and he just gets richer and richer!--but on the ground no honest person can deny that SOMETHING is happening from the Arctic Circle all the way down to the Amazon and Australia).

And it's true there's not much topsoil in Homestead.  You read of people having to blast holes in the rock to plant trees.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=39611.0
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 11:20:38 AM by johnb51 »
John

johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 09:45:05 AM »
https://www.greendreamsfl.com/
This sounds like a good company.  I wonder if any of our members have experience with them.
John

nepatriot

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 10:39:16 AM »
https://www.greendreamsfl.com/

They are exactly what I was looking for.. but folks seem to be super busy.. I am on a wait list for consultation..

nepatriot

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2020, 10:49:42 AM »
Did you really do your homework well?  I'd go back to the drawing boards. 

Agree.. I am completely new to this whole process.. what I see is mature Mango orchards (many of them) concentrated in these 2 areas.. it tells me that weather has to consistent for such long periods for mango trees to thrive..

I see mango groves in Bokeelia have trees older than 90 years.. and parts of Island are high ground.. closer to sea and high ground seems to be the best bet..

As for Homestead, again the same..lots of groves with mature trees.. I haven't thought about the flooding until now..


johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2020, 11:19:19 AM »
Did you really do your homework well?  I'd go back to the drawing boards. 

Agree.. I am completely new to this whole process.. what I see is mature Mango orchards (many of them) concentrated in these 2 areas.. it tells me that weather has to consistent for such long periods for mango trees to thrive..

I see mango groves in Bokeelia have trees older than 90 years.. and parts of Island are high ground.. closer to sea and high ground seems to be the best bet..

As for Homestead, again the same..lots of groves with mature trees.. I haven't thought about the flooding until now.  Climate scientists would argue that this is not a fluke so I would plan any venture accordingly.
So you find the mature mango orchards there because the weather was more consistent in the past.  The last decade has brought a warming trend and less consistency to Florida winter weather.  Climate scientists would argue that this is consistent with their models and is not a fluke so it might be wise to plan any venture and investment accordingly.  Farming in general is getting riskier so some sort of permaculture and top soil conservation might be the way to go.  Forum member Frog Valley Farm is an advocate for that.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 11:29:54 AM by johnb51 »
John

roblack

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2020, 11:36:59 AM »
John makes some great points.

Mango production here (near Homestead) is variable, although some varieties and trees seem to be doing well.

I agree further north, and higher ground sound wise.

 

andersst

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2020, 06:21:27 PM »
If your only goal is to grow mangos it should be possible as far north as Orlando.
Although you will be risking frost for now, in 20 years maybe Orlando will stay above 40, we will see.

If you want to grow cold-sensitive fruits, like soursop and others, the further south the better in my opinion.
If you want to play it safe stay south. If you want to push the boundary and take a risk, push north. Pine Island is relatively safe even for cold-sensitive fruits, but not as safe as Homestead.

Lowland and flood risk is almost always an issue if you are buying land in FL. May want to consider building elevated beds.
Many people in SW FL build elevated beds and have great success.
Steve

bsbullie

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2020, 10:19:15 PM »
If your only goal is to grow mangos it should be possible as far north as Orlando.
Although you will be risking frost for now, in 20 years maybe Orlando will stay above 40, we will see.

If you want to grow cold-sensitive fruits, like soursop and others, the further south the better in my opinion.
If you want to play it safe stay south. If you want to push the boundary and take a risk, push north. Pine Island is relatively safe even for cold-sensitive fruits, but not as safe as Homestead.

Lowland and flood risk is almost always an issue if you are buying land in FL. May want to consider building elevated beds.
Many people in SW FL build elevated beds and have great success.

Many areas of Homestead can be hit by sone of the coldest temps found in SFla.  Bokeelia is much better location if you can find a piece of quality land (that you can afford).
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 10:43:13 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

andersst

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2020, 10:33:29 PM »
If your only goal is to grow mangos it should be possible as far north as Orlando.
Although you will be risking frost for now, in 20 years maybe Orlando will stay above 40, we will see.

If you want to grow cold-sensitive fruits, like soursop and others, the further south the better in my opinion.
If you want to play it safe stay south. If you want to push the boundary and take a risk, push north. Pine Island is relatively safe even for cold-sensitive fruits, but not as safe as Homestead.

Lowland and flood risk is almost always an issue if you are buying land in FL. May want to consider building elevated beds.
Many people in SW FL build elevated beds and have great success.

Many areas of Homestead can be hit by sone of thge coldest temps found on SFla.  Bookelia is much better location if you can find a piece of quality land (that you can afford).

Good info! I have heard great things about the Pine Island micro-climate.
Steve

nepatriot

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2020, 08:55:45 PM »
Great inputs guys. Found this web page which is giving an elevation when you input an address. Not sure how accurate...

https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/theme/elevation/#

johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 12:17:40 AM »
Why don't you try contacting these people for advice who are located near Lake Okeechobee?  Their website doesn't show any updates for 2020, but give 'em a shot.  http://ericksonfarm2018.com/  I really think you'd be wise to avoid any location near sea level.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 12:22:30 AM by johnb51 »
John

demingcr

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 01:53:16 AM »
Hello folks, we zeroed in on the above locations for a Mango grove. Any inputs which one is better in terms of climate/soil? It's going to be a lot of young plants. Need some inputs. Also any good grove maintenance companies in these locations you can suggest.

lot of nonsense responses with advice based on theoretical or 20+++ year future 'possible' climates. Let's focus on facts instead of feelings about the new world order in 20 years shall we folks of the forum?

here's facts i know of location near me - bokeelia.

Climate is ideal for mango raising. Very little disease pressure, ideal temps, and reasonable soil. Lots of land available to start new and likely also established groves available to purchase. Be forewarned that groves to purchase likely (though not guaranteed) focus on commercial production with lots of tommy atkins and/or haden mango. Not necessarily a bad thing, but definitely a factor.

some detractors of Pine island to consider: not the easiest place to get to, salt water intrusion on wells -- there's not really city water available, sugar-sand or similar soil (not bad for mango, but worth considering building up for better early growth and yield)
- Colin

johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 08:57:21 AM »
salt water intrusion on wells -- there's not really city water available
Precisely my point! Major problem that will only get worse.  I'm sure that 10 or 20 years down the road is very important to them.

Nepatriot, if you're serious about this, just consider ALL FACTORS from every perspective.  I'm sure you'll arrive at the right decision.  I've got no skin in the game.  It's your call.  Just trying to be helpful and have an intelligent discussion on the subject.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 01:46:07 PM by johnb51 »
John

Aaron

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 10:14:40 PM »
Salt water in the wells is caused by drilling not rising ocean waters.

achetadomestica

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 10:37:37 PM »
Hello folks, we zeroed in on the above locations for a Mango grove. Any inputs which one is better in terms of climate/soil? It's going to be a lot of young plants. Need some inputs. Also any good grove maintenance companies in these locations you can suggest.
Hey I am curious have you ever grown mangos?

johnb51

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« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 11:09:22 PM by johnb51 »
John

nepatriot

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 10:05:43 AM »
Hello folks, we zeroed in on the above locations for a Mango grove. Any inputs which one is better in terms of climate/soil? It's going to be a lot of young plants. Need some inputs. Also any good grove maintenance companies in these locations you can suggest.

lot of nonsense responses with advice based on theoretical or 20+++ year future 'possible' climates. Let's focus on facts instead of feelings about the new world order in 20 years shall we folks of the forum?

here's facts i know of location near me - bokeelia.

Climate is ideal for mango raising. Very little disease pressure, ideal temps, and reasonable soil. Lots of land available to start new and likely also established groves available to purchase. Be forewarned that groves to purchase likely (though not guaranteed) focus on commercial production with lots of tommy atkins and/or haden mango. Not necessarily a bad thing, but definitely a factor.

some detractors of Pine island to consider: not the easiest place to get to, salt water intrusion on wells -- there's not really city water available, sugar-sand or similar soil (not bad for mango, but worth considering building up for better early growth and yield)

True.. exactly my thoughts.. 100 yr old Mango trees.. and so many concentrated in a small area.. but salt water intrusion is something I haven't thought about. I was looking for lots with public water if possible.. seen some with little ponds on the lot.. Agent confirmed these are fresh water ponds.. point is Mango trees dont need a lot of water once mature..probably some combination of rain water harvesting and drip irrigation if it gets that bad..


Aaron

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2020, 05:32:15 PM »

johnb51

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 05:50:29 PM »
Salt water in the wells is caused by drilling not rising ocean waters.
https://www.climatehubs.usda.gov/hubs/northeast/topic/saltwater-intrusion-growing-threat-coastal-agriculture
https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/saltwater-intrusion?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects
A combination of factors, it seems.

Maybe in other places im talking about what happened to the aquifers on Pine Island. Ive talked to people who have lived on the island for generations.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/unnumbered/70047676/report.pdf
Your report is dated 1968.  That's 52 years ago.
John

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 09:24:47 PM »
Being 52 years old doesnt make it not true, that's when the salt got in the wells. My home 20 miles inland is more under water after a hurricane then the island is.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 09:26:23 PM by Aaron »

palmtreeluke

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Re: Homestead or Bokeelia for Mango grove
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2020, 02:19:59 PM »
for consultation reach out to Matt at https://www.peaceriverorganics.com/

Personally id avoid both homestead and Pine island. Situate you farm on higher land interior south central fl if possible.. I grow mango 25 miles inland in Sw florida...
Home of the Chewy Purple Sugar Apple Annona squamosa 'Isan Indigo'
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