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Author Topic: 4-5 Best Mango Varieties for Compactness, Flavor Profiles, and Extended Season  (Read 2465 times)

johnb51

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I've decided to broaden this discussion.  If you could plant only 4 or 5 mango trees but wanted compact, healthy, productive varieties that would extend the season as much as possible and give you all different flavor profiles, which trees would you plant?

ORIGINALLY I WROTE:
Of the "new" Zill mango varieties are there any that are similar to Pickering and Carrie as far as being slow-growing, compact, and very easy to keep small?  I know that Honey Kiss might qualify.  Any others?  I've seen some photos of young M-4s where they look compact.  What about Sugarloaf?  Pina Colada isn't new, but it, too, seems to be on the small and compact side.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 08:46:42 AM by johnb51 »
John

roblack

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 11:58:42 AM »
M4 seems compact so far for me, but now is starting to push upwards.

Sugar Loaf is going real nice for me. Really like the shape.



johnb51

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 12:26:36 PM »
M4 seems compact so far for me, but now is starting to push upwards.

Sugar Loaf is going real nice for me. Really like the shape.


Great!  Thanks.  What are others observing about these and the other varieties?  The goal would be to keep them at 10-12 feet in a garden setting.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 01:17:47 PM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 01:35:49 PM »
Honey Kiss

JulianoGS

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 02:35:09 PM »
Coconut cream
Blessed are all who fear the LORD,
    who walk in obedience to him.
You will eat the fruit of your labor;
    blessings and prosperity will be yours.

Psalms 128

roblack

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2020, 05:45:46 PM »
Coconut cream

Coco Cream is NOT dwarfish. It is long and lanky. Vigorous.

bsbullie

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 05:59:15 PM »
Coconut cream

It is vigirous with serious undulation habit to the branches.  It requires constant trimming of lower branches (annually).  Each year the lowest branches seem to have the undulating issue and need removing.

With its growth habit and short/poor shelf life, it has been trounced by many other varieties on the "best of" releases.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 08:41:04 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

MangoCountry

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2020, 06:43:38 PM »
Honey Kiss. Pina Colada too

TonyinCC

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2020, 09:59:35 AM »
Little Gem is compact as grown in my yard and has a nice natural shape. Very healthy tree. Late season,precocious, heavy bearing small-med fruit with a very small seed.  Slightly more vigorous than Pickering in my yard. Relatively little pruning needed. 

johnb51

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2020, 11:26:12 AM »
Little Gem is compact as grown in my yard and has a nice natural shape. Very healthy tree. Late season,precocious, heavy bearing small-med fruit with a very small seed.  Slightly more vigorous than Pickering in my yard. Relatively little pruning needed.
What's the flavor profile?  I like TAF's description. 

(I might be starting my garden over with a 9000 sq. ft. lot with zero trees, full sun!  My wife says she won't allow me to plant 25 trees this time.  We have to keep 50% sod.
 Crazy, huh?  12 max, she says, and we'd have to include 2 guanabana trees, 2 avocado, and one sapodilla because she likes those.  She's allergic to mangos.  I'll have to convince her that jaboticaba is not a tree; it's a bush, right?  Right?  And banana and papaya plants are not trees.)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 01:11:46 PM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2020, 07:12:15 PM »
Little Gem is compact as grown in my yard and has a nice natural shape. Very healthy tree. Late season,precocious, heavy bearing small-med fruit with a very small seed.  Slightly more vigorous than Pickering in my yard. Relatively little pruning needed.
What's the flavor profile?  I like TAF's description. 

(I might be starting my garden over with a 9000 sq. ft. lot with zero trees, full sun!  My wife says she won't allow me to plant 25 trees this time.  We have to keep 50% sod.
 Crazy, huh?  12 max, she says, and we'd have to include 2 guanabana trees, 2 avocado, and one sapodilla because she likes those.  She's allergic to mangos.  I'll have to convince her that jaboticaba is not a tree; it's a bush, right?  Right?  And banana and papaya plants are not trees.)

Bananas and papayas are definitely not trees, you should be able to slip those by no problem. Heck, papaya is just an herb.  :)

y0rascal

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2020, 07:30:54 PM »
I've heard Orange Essence tends to be slow growing. not sure maybe Rob could chime in.

TonyinCC

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2020, 08:10:13 PM »
Little Gem flavor is excellent if not picked too early. It has Julie parentage but easy to grow and productive. Not as dwarf as Julie but looks like it will be easy to maintain at a relatively small size. Complex with strong coconut pineapple and fresh orange juice flavors, maybe a hint of apricot, a great sugar acid balance and medium soft texture. Juicy too. It has a bit of resin flavor too closest to the peel, not a lot but it is detectable. Flesh color should look like pics in the following linked post when at its peak. My tree is holding about 45 fruit this year.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29084.0

johnb51

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2020, 09:41:04 PM »
Carrie vs. Dwarf Hawaiian vs. Little Gem.  How do they stack up?  Is there an obvious winner?

Pickering vs. M-4 vs. Sugarloaf vs. Pina Colada?  Choose one and why.

I don't know how I could avoid planting Lemon Zest.  I don't believe there's a substitute.
John

bsbullie

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2020, 11:10:56 PM »
You cant compare Pickering and Pina Colada to M4 or E4.  Pina Colada should be compared to Gary.

Pickering is ok but nowhere near the class of the other three you mentioned.
- Rob

TonyinCC

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2020, 11:13:20 PM »
I think the original post was about choosing a few  compact trees for a yard with limited space. Sometimes the elite mangos aren't productive or have other problems for a home grower. Pickering is pretty awesome overall even if it can't quite match the elite mangos. The sum of its good qualities as a tree and fruit for the home grower make it elite in its own way.
  Carrie gives some edible fruit as early as late April near me, most of the fruit is fairly early, May and June but usually holds some fruit into midseason. I would consider Carrie a moderate grower as far as tree size, a step up from compact. I would say it is on the low end as far as productivity goes based on my Dad's tree in North Ft. Myers.
 I just got Dwarf Hawaiian this year. 
Pickering is Late May through early July, highly productive and precocious. One of the very best choices. A well ripened Pickering is almost as good as Coconut Cream or Pina Colada with sort of a toned down blend of those flavor profiles. I ate a Coconut Cream yesterday for the first time and it reminded me of a perfect Pickering with the coconut flavor turned up a notch. I tried them back to back and it would be like trying to chose between beautiful women. It is better to choose the one that is easier to live with... Mango trees don't get jealous if you have more than one.
Sugarloaf looks like it will be fairly compact but I believe it is midseason to late? I planted Sugarloaf this year.
  M4 is supposed to be late.
 Pina Colada tastes awesome and is intense but is small and has a poor flesh to pit ratio. I don't have it planted but seems to be available locally during midseason. I go out of my way to buy a few fruit every year.
I have heard several reports it is not very productive. Maybe it is not precocious and will crop better as trees age. Anyone have a productive Pina Colada tree?
I am hopeful about Dwarf Hawaiian as an early mango at my location near the coast, and M4 and Sugarloaf as being good choices for mid to late. I don't have M4 planted but have heard that it can be alternate bearing. I have some friends that have it planted so I will find out eventually if it holds up against disease.
If you only have room for a few trees, alternate bearing makes a tree less desirable even if the fruit is awesome.
  If I had room for only 2 trees at this point in time, my choices would be Pickering and Little Gem. Both seem compact, disease resistant,nice tree shape, highly productive  and excellent fruit. Those two trees will cover most of the Mango season with Pickering early and Little Gem late. Once Pickering's season is done, if you started picking Little Gem a week or so early and ripen off the tree it will taste like a firmer Carrie. Pickering and Little Gem are both best if not picked too early and then fully ripened off the tree before eating. If you prefer a milder mango for late season go with Honey Kiss.
I planted Seacrest AKA TripleSec as my citrus mango this year. Haven't tasted it yet. In a few years I will find out if I was right or wrong planting it over Lemon Zest. I like lemon zest but it might be a bit too intense for some people in my family.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 11:51:19 PM by TonyinCC »

johnb51

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2020, 11:42:15 AM »
Thank you, Tony, for your kind and detailed response.  My goal would be to have 4 or 5 productive, disease-free, manageable (compact) mango trees that cover a long season and most of the major flavor profiles.  I've grown Pickering before, and I've always been a big fan due to the sum total of its qualities.  It may have to suffice as my "coconut-flavored" mango.  I'd like to include one or two flavor bombs, and Lemon Zest seems like an obvious choice because of the outstanding citrus flavor.  I guess my question is whether there's anything else from the new Zill group which is manageable, disease-free, and productive and should definitely also be considered.  I've grown Honey Kiss, which is a late mango, and I like it.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 11:49:15 AM by johnb51 »
John

bsbullie

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2020, 12:59:44 PM »
If your trees are limited, you may want to rethink LZ.  It is for the most part vigorous plus its susceptibility to MBBS.

If you must have the cutrus taste, you are probably better off with OS sue to being what seems to be less prone to MBBS.

You may be better off with Phoenix (not for citrus but flavor in general) and I think you should be able to keep it shaped.   I think you could also keep M4 in check sizewise (with limited trees, unless you really love it, why go with Pickering?).  Pina Colada, Cac and Guava should be on your short list.
- Rob

weiss613

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Deleted
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2020, 01:29:33 PM »
deleted

.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 09:37:49 AM by weiss613 »

bsbullie

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Re: Are Any New Zill Mango Introductions Dwarfish or Very Compact Trees?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2020, 02:32:10 PM »
If I may chime in I have an opinion about the subject at hand.

 I live on a half acre corner lot in Kendall Florida and I have almost 290 fruit trees. ApproxImately 260 mango, 32 avocado and 3 lychee trees.  I became addicted to planting trees and then I had to justify what I did and keep everything in total control in order to not look like a total fool. Well the experiment has been a smashing success so far and itís been almost 20 years of planting but the majority of the mango trees have only been in the ground going on 3-4 years. How is this possible? And this is to address the question of dwarf trees. Because we have the power of free choice(but every cut I make I actually feel) and we control our trees so if one loves the flavor of a super fast big growing tree like Valencia Pride plant it and keep it small. I try to keep all my newest variety ultra ultra high density mango trees ďskinny.Ē And after harvest time I cut the producing trees that are over 3 years old down to 6 feet and donít cut the tops again till after each harvest. Then I hand prune and tip each and side branch again only this time until after itís fruits are picked the following year. If After a rain when the branches can get weighted down by the water and it looks like itís heading towards an adjacent tree Iíll prune it back. Iím on constant guard to not let a single branch of 1 tree cross and pass another branch from a different tree.
What does all this neurotic ďworkĒ accomplish. On my less than 3 year old trees I prune every branch with new growth from about 4-5 inches up because I want a very fully branched tree and I donít know when Iíll be passing by that tree again and be able to tip it again. Result is 3-4 or more times yield of fruit than planting 1 tree every X number of feet. Also way healthier looking trees better able to withstand droughts and high winds. Why? Because those roots continue to grow out even though the tree is kept at 6-8 feet so the roots get a lot of sq footage to feed from and they hold the short tree with its bigger growing thicker trunk to resist the wind and the smaller tree gets the same nutrition that a giant tree would have gotten. So if you prune the inside branches out s air can circulated throughout the tree your incidence of fungus disease will be just about zero.
So my advice is buy the tree that you love the fruit from and plant it and nurture it and control it like the master. (Woman or Man) and enjoy the hell out of it.  Because dwarf or no dwarf you can make it fit.
PS Yes Pickering is a 1 of a kind tree in the yield vs size argument. This year out of all my 3 years or older trees even though my Pickering was only 6í tall at harvest it made more fruit by weight than almost every other of my trees and this is one of if not the main reason it stays short because the weight of all that fruit pulls the branches down so much that when it puts out leaves and branches a month or 2 after the fruit is picked the branches start out very low from that low position. On the other hand I have a young Pickering that had no fruit and itís growing upward and fast just like all its adjacent varieties. So my opinion on the growth habit of Pickering is it is only called dwarf because all the fruit it produces keeps the branches growing mostly laterally or down. But a young Pickering grows at a normal rate.
A short video.     https://share.icloud.com/photos/00suh1p5bilpG35WuoVl8Yfeg

 I have no problems of people giving opinions, but they should be based on knowledge not just thought. Regarding Valencia Pride, you are not going to keep it small to matter what you do unless you just keep hacking it back and eliminate the fruit. Don't be fooled by what you see after 2 or 3 years growth. You are also in Miami on a lime rock bass which is not the greatest for mangoes. Go up into Broward Palm Beach and other areas where it is more sand and/or other type of substrate, they growth will be exponential and crazy fast with no ability to keep it to size and small.
- Rob

johnb51

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I've decided to broaden this discussion.

If you could plant only 4 or 5 mango trees but wanted compact, healthy, productive varieties that would extend the season as much as possible and give you all different flavor profiles, which trees would you plant?  Try to throw in one or two flavor bombs, which might be new Zill varieties.  Basically looking to get the most bang for my buck in a very limited number of trees!  And I want to keep the trees about ten feet tall.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 08:47:32 AM by johnb51 »
John

bovine421

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Dwarf Hawaiian Pickering Mallika  Honey Kiss [Dot and OS] Icing on the cake IMHO
Tete Nene Julie Pickering Dot Sonpari Mallika PPK E-4 OS   Fruit Punch SweetTart Honey Kiss M-4 Neelam

TonyinCC

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This year I thought I had Mallika all figured out but it has been really frustrating to pick them correctly. My Dad in North Ft Myers has a tree that has been fruiting about 5 years and this year only a handful out of maybe 50 so far tasted good. None have even had the carrot flavor they sometimes get. A lot of them have been sour and haven't ripened properly, others have had the off flavor I call "mango death"
 It can at times rival the very best mangos with a smooth orange creamsicle taste but this year very few are even edible. This is after 5 years of picking experience and I really was sure I knew when to pick them. The best one this year actually turned almost all yellow on the tree and fell into my hand. Every year up to this one they have been at least decent even if I was off with the timing. Usually picking them when the shoulder starts turning yellow or a few days after and holding them about a week gave me good to excellent flavor. This is the first year I was too busy to hit the tree with trace elements and Potassium in the spring, maybe that is the problem.

TonyinCC

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I have a similar goal of finding the best compact productive,very good tasting, disease resistant mango varieties.
I don't spray my trees. Not all the mangos that fit your original requirements are new Zill varieties.
 Varieties I have for my yard are  Florigon, Dwarf Hawaiian, Pickering, Edgar(seems to get black spot but ripens early enough that I haven't lost any fruit), Maha Chanok, Mun Khun See,  White Pirie,  Cac,  Seacrest , Duncan, Buttercream, Nancy(closest I have seen to a Keitt replacement,beautiful purple red blush and huge fruit but done by late Aug.),Deloris, Sugarloaf,  Cotton Candy( a better balanced mango than I expected,very sweet,has a little acidity and hint of coconut flavor),Little Gem. I will probably add Orange Sherbert,Honey Kiss and Super Alphonso.
 How many of those have you tasted?  I have tasted over half of the varieties I have planted and probably at least 50 others. With the varieties I have planted I have most of the flavor profiles from mild to wild covered and season from very early to very late.
 I can live with a few trees that are less than compact but even those I will just prune more. I passed on buying Guava and Pina Colada trees locally in the past because they already seemed to have fungal problems and just did not look healthy in the nursery pots. I have tasted Dot from Pine Island nearby and I love it. I would have planted it but I am worried about fungal problems.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 08:14:42 PM by TonyinCC »

Honest Abe

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My obsessive novice opinion:
Julie
Sugarloaf
Sweet Tart
PPK
Maha Chanok

Should give you a fairly long season and a nice flavor range with FAIRLY compact trees

 

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