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Author Topic: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup  (Read 455 times)

EricSC

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alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« on: September 08, 2020, 05:24:03 PM »
For citrus alternative bearing, does late ripe fruit/late pick up affect the alternative bearing?

For example, GN fruits are usually ripe between March to May/Jun.   Unfortunately, it is the same period of blooming.

Will the fruits still remaining on the tree limit the spring blooming so cause alternative bearing?   If so, the fruits can be picked up earlier but they would not taste sweet .


Millet

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2020, 06:16:20 PM »
Gold Nugget is an alternate tree.  Whether you pick the fruit when it is fully ripe, or a month or two early when it is not completely ready the tree will be alternate bearing.  You can try pruning some of the fruit when they are still in the marble size to reduce the effects of alternate bearing, but even then it is a gamble.  Golden Nugget taste remains well even into September.  I have a Golden Nugget tree, and I just live with the alternate bearing.  You could always buy a second tree.

EricSC

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 07:01:28 PM »
Gold Nugget is an alternate tree.  Whether you pick the fruit when it is fully ripe, or a month or two early when it is not completely ready the tree will be alternate bearing.  You can try pruning some of the fruit when they are still in the marble size to reduce the effects of alternate bearing, but even then it is a gamble.  Golden Nugget taste remains well even into September.  I have a Golden Nugget tree, and I just live with the alternate bearing.  You could always buy a second tree.
,

A second tree sounds the best solution.   

containerman

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 07:09:56 PM »
Gold Nugget is an alternate tree.  Whether you pick the fruit when it is fully ripe, or a month or two early when it is not completely ready the tree will be alternate bearing.  You can try pruning some of the fruit when they are still in the marble size to reduce the effects of alternate bearing, but even then it is a gamble.  Golden Nugget taste remains well even into September.  I have a Golden Nugget tree, and I just live with the alternate bearing.  You could always buy a second tree.

If I didn't already have so many varieties that would be my solution but I have plenty of varieties so the alternate bearing doesn't bother me with GN. Last season I had about 60 fruit on a 5 foot tree and this year in the 40's. So I'm happy with my 5 year old GN's production so far.

EricSC

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 11:04:29 PM »
Gold Nugget is an alternate tree.  Whether you pick the fruit when it is fully ripe, or a month or two early when it is not completely ready the tree will be alternate bearing.  You can try pruning some of the fruit when they are still in the marble size to reduce the effects of alternate bearing, but even then it is a gamble.  Golden Nugget taste remains well even into September.  I have a Golden Nugget tree, and I just live with the alternate bearing.  You could always buy a second tree.

If I didn't already have so many varieties that would be my solution but I have plenty of varieties so the alternate bearing doesn't bother me with GN. Last season I had about 60 fruit on a 5 foot tree and this year in the 40's. So I'm happy with my 5 year old GN's production so far.

In your case, one tree is good. 

spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 04:20:09 PM »
My GN tree doesn't alternate.  Maybe your location isnt getting enough heat units or hours of sun? 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2020, 06:51:27 PM »
My GN tree doesn't alternate.  Maybe your location isnt getting enough heat units or hours of sun?
that just might be the case as I'm in California's Central Valley and mine is in full sun.

spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 06:58:28 PM »
Ive got a dancy mandarin that also makes HUGE crops every year.  It never alternates.  None of my citrus trees do. 

I think it just comes down to if the tree is getting enough inputs(sun, water, nutrition) to flush during the year while it holds fruit.  If the tree doesnt have enough energy to flush more new growth AND make fruit then its going to alternate.  Culling the fruit a month or 2 early isn't going to make much difference.  The new growth needs to be going on all year. 

Brad Spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 07:19:46 PM »
Ive got a dancy mandarin that also makes HUGE crops every year.  It never alternates.  None of my citrus trees do. 

I think it just comes down to if the tree is getting enough inputs(sun, water, nutrition) to flush during the year while it holds fruit.  If the tree doesnt have enough energy to flush more new growth AND make fruit then its going to alternate.  Culling the fruit a month or 2 early isn't going to make much difference.  The new growth needs to be going on all year.
thats a good sign since all my container citrus in 1/2 wine barrel containers are flushing out with new growth.

Millet

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 09:18:17 PM »
 I have doubts about the above reasons why an alternate bearing becomes ever bearing.   My Golden Negate is in a greenhouse and thus has summer like temperatures year around. It is fed regularly, and it is an alternate bearing tree.  Personally, I have never known of a Golden Nugget tree that was not alternate baring.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 01:06:34 PM by Millet »

EricSC

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2020, 12:04:02 AM »
First of all this thread is discussing Golden Negate, not Dancy.  I have doubts about the above reasons why an alternate bearing becomes ever bearing.   My Golden Negate is in a greenhouse and thus has summer like temperatures year around. It is fed regularly, and it is an alternate bearing tree.  Personally, I have never known of a Golden Nugget tree that was not alternate baring.

Based on the article below, it is hard to avoid alternative bearing for GN because early harvest is almost not an option.
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4 Severity of alternate bearing
The severity of alternate bearing appears to be related to extremes in crop load and to late harvest in the on-crop year. In some cases, heavy crops are still on the tree during floral induction and sometimes during anthesis and initial fruit set and in these cases earlier harvest is not an option.

5 Effect of fruit on return bloom
Fruit have a definite effect on the number of flowers and the total number of spring shoots that develop in the return bloom. The lack of flowers in the off-crop year is characteristic of years following a heavy fruit load as shown by Figure 4 (Sorry, I was not able to copy the photo from the PDF file). The presence of a large number of fruit appears to have an inhibitory effect on floral shoot production as well as vegetative growth and, thus, reduces flower number and yield, rather than influencing fruit set. The number of flowers and yield is inversely proportional to crop load in terms of the number of fruit produced the preceding year. The length of the time the crop remains on the tree after maturity increases the degree of alternate bearing. Therefore, early harvest is very important to prevent alternate bearing.

6 Effect of fruit on vegetative growth
Fruit have an inhibitory effect on vegetative shoot growth which leads to a reduction in potential bearing positions in the following spring. Biennial or alternate bearing can therefore be induced through a lack of flowering positions after an on-crop year. Citrus flowering should not be viewed independently from the previous crop and vegetative growth flushes that occur throughout the season. A heavy crop load (on-crop) results in less and shorter summer shoots. Therefore, on-crop trees have very little or no summer vegetative flush, and this may reduce the next seasonís bloom. Also, in a sparse flowering year, most of the spring flush shoots will be vegetative and the few floral shoots produce a light crop, which in turn results in the production of many floral shoots and a few vegetative shoots in the next spring, which will subsequently result in a heavy fruit load. The number and length of vegetative shoots that grow throughout the season is very important to the return bloom. The balance between vegetative and reproductive growth in a tree is important for a constant yield year after year.

Millet

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2020, 12:04:18 PM »
EricSC thanks for the link, very informative.  If one goes with early crop picking, then he/she is losing the fantastic taste of a fully mature Golden Nugget.  I contend the best solution for those who enjoy Golden Nugget's fruit, is to plant a second tree.  By doing so the grower will have an on year bumper crop every year.  An alternative would be to plant a Ponkan Mandarin, which is another awesome tasting alternate bearing tree . One year, enjoy Golden Nugget, followed by a year of Ponkan Mandarin.  (Ponkan is one of the largest sized mandarins).  I grow both trees.  This year my Golden Nugget is bearing fruit, and my Ponkan is enjoying its off year.  2021 will be reversed.

spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2020, 04:24:37 PM »
I have doubts about the above reasons why an alternate bearing becomes ever bearing.   My Golden Negate is in a greenhouse and thus has summer like temperatures year around. It is fed regularly, and it is an alternate bearing tree.  Personally, I have never known of a Golden Nugget tree that was not alternate baring.

Millet, this is the reason any fruit tree alternate bears.  Theres not enough new canopy growth to produce blooms.  The tree is using all its available energy to fruit.  It happens for avocados a lot also.   Its worse for late varieties because the fruit take more input to ripen and hang longer into the year further inhibiting vegetative growth.  But if you have enough inputs for the tree, they can hold a good crop, grow vegetatively and bloom again and set fruit while holding last years fruit. 

  I assure you my gold nugget doesnt alternate and this is the reason.  Along with many of my avocado trees and also citrus cultivars that are described as alternate bearers.  My gold nugget is full of fruit right now and has already made a bunch of new flushes that I know will be flowering and setting more fruit in spring. 

Just because your greenhouse stays warm doesnt mean its getting as much sun input or nutritional input as a ground planted tree in southern CA.  The GH light transmission, your weather pattern in CO, and constrained rootsystem of a container grown tree limit its growth inputs. 

And the reason I brought up my Dancy tree is because its also described as an alternate bearing tree.  But mine doesnt alternate in the slightest.  My location is on a south facing slope in the foothills of san diego.  Its full sun exposure all day, high heat, and 300+ days of cloudless skies here.  And the ground is a very well draining decomposed granite.  This is what makes the tree produce every year.

I saw other people on this forum knocking the gold nugget tree for its poor performance at a beach location.  Alternate bearing or weak fruit flavor.  Its not getting enough inputs at the beach.  Its much cooler and cloudy at the beach plus a residential yard has more possible shadow casters. 

If your trees alternate a lot and you rather have fruit every year, thin your crops down when they are marble size.  Let the tree put more energy into conopy growth and you will get smaller crops that come every year.  This works for any alternating fruit tree. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 05:52:43 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2020, 04:38:27 PM »
What part of san diego do you live in Eric?
Brad Spaugh

EricSC

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2020, 05:52:32 PM »
Between RB and Escondido.

spaugh

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2020, 06:00:47 PM »
Its a warm area.  If you thin your tree, I think you will get fruit every year.  Assuming the tree is getting full sun and the soil is decent it should be pretty similar conditions to where Im at in east end of poway.

Mulching, fertilizing, good watering schedule, tree placement etc all going to help.

Good luck buddy.  If you ever want to stop by you are welcome to.  I met a lot of nice people on this foeum and you are just a short drive away. 
Brad Spaugh

EricSC

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2020, 10:42:56 PM »
Its a warm area.  If you thin your tree, I think you will get fruit every year.  Assuming the tree is getting full sun and the soil is decent it should be pretty similar conditions to where Im at in east end of poway.

Mulching, fertilizing, good watering schedule, tree placement etc all going to help.

Good luck buddy.  If you ever want to stop by you are welcome to.  I met a lot of nice people on this foeum and you are just a short drive away. 

Thanks Spaugh.  Will practice it.  I am still learning a lot of these details.

containerman

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2020, 04:01:30 PM »
The alternate bearing makes sense with younger trees with underdeveloped canopies since I also have young Avocado trees still developing and experience alternate bearing with them. I have 10 different varieties of avocado trees.

sc4001992

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Re: alternative bearing and late ripe/late pickup
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 02:32:16 PM »
I will have to agree with Brad. I live in Orange County (Fullerton area) and my Gold Nugget has as much fruits on the tree as it did last year (50-100).
My tree has been in the ground for over 10yrs and it is a very vigorous, upright growing tree. Since it gets so many fruits, I usually need to thin some fruits so the smaller branches don't bend/break off.

 

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