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Author Topic: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor  (Read 689 times)

SoCal2warm

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Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« on: October 07, 2020, 02:26:03 AM »
I just got the opportunity to try Ichang papeda fruits, off a tree 6 feet high growing outside in Portland.

The fruits are yellow and look ripe in color but the fruit size is small, so these fruits might not be fully grown or all the way ripe.
The fruits I tasted were not much bigger than normal Poncirus trifoliata fruits. Although Ichang papeda fruits are supposed to be bigger than that.


The fruits smell similar to lemon, but deeper smelling, maybe almost a little bit resinous woody smelling (entirely in a good way). It's a beautiful fragrance, at least in my personal opinion.
Something about the fragrance smells just a little "off", in a way that sort of reminds me of kaffir lime. Maybe even almost the slightest bit "skunky" (but I would not say in a bad way).
The fragrance is very similar, in a way, to Yuzu, except without the sour orange type of fragrance and without the "spiciness".

(And some of the deepness almost reminds me a little bit of the deep aspect of the smell in Satsuma mandarins, though it would be a stretch to say it smells like Satsuma)

I can eat the rinds and peel of the fruits with little difficulty. I would say they are about as edible as mandarinquat, but maybe with just slightly more bitterness. Pretty similar to a kumquat hybrid or to citron, more like citron in flavor.

The flavor of the fruits is somewhere between lemon, citron, lime, and kaffir lime. But a little bit of bitterness. Still edible though. (Definitely nothing like the awful flavor of Poncirus trifoliata)

The inside juice segments are not very big, but they are decent enough. It kind of reminds me, not surprisingly, of a Yuzu, a little bit dry, not very juicy. But enough to be edible, if we are talking about foraging or a survival situation.
The inside kind of reminds me of an unripe lime, I would say would be the best description.


I also did not notice seeds in the fruit. There was maybe one shriveled up seed that does not look like it will be viable. But then there are tiny little orange gel spot segments where the seeds should be, in each segment.


Something about the aroma of these fruits seem to go very well with Bombay Sapphire East gin.


I am actually a big fan of these fruits. But that is just my personal opinion. I don't want to get anyone else's hopes too up. I am a huge fan of sour-aromatic things like lemons.
I mostly like these little fruits due to the unique fragrance, which is sort of comparable to Yuzu but more on the lemon or citron side.

I'm pretty sure the majority of you will not like them as much as I, so take that into consideration.

(These are of course like a sour lemon and worse fruit quality than a normal lemon, so many people are not going to find these to be edible, except for the more adventurous types of persons who like tasting strange things)

However, I do have to concede one thing, and that is that after eating a whole fruit, they do not really sit the best in my stomach, and afterwards I am burping up a sort of skunky taste, which I did not really notice so much while I was eating them. It's like they have an "off" flavor that only kicks in a minute or two after you eat it, after you have already swallowed. But I did eat the whole fruits with the peel and rinds.


I know some of you may have been curious about what Ichang papeda tastes like, so I hope this review helps.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 02:46:17 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 06:45:29 PM »
Thread title: "can you grow citrus in north Carolina?"
Gardenweb
_____________________________________________________
lorabell_gw
November‎ ‎13‎, ‎2016‎

I've a crazy gardener friend here in Fayetteville NC

> picture of bowl of lemons <

who has a lemon tree , outside, about 20 years old. She picked bushels of lemons on Thursday and I was the recipient of about 40 lbs of them. They do nothing for overwintering. About 5 years ago I started a baby with some of the yearly stash and it too is outside doing great with no winter protection.
____________________________________________________
calamondindave
December‎ ‎14‎, ‎2016

A poster on the Citrus forum says the lemon fruit in the above picture looks exactly like an "Ichang lemon". After googling it, I think it does too. It's pretty cold hardy.
____________________________________________________
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1816729/can-you-grow-citrus-in-north-carolina


According to a climate zone map, Fayetteville seems to be right on the border between 8a and 7b.

So that seems to be about the limit of what Ichang lemon can handle in the hot climate of the South.
(Keep in mind North Carolina has a lot more heat than cooler climates further North, so that's certainly going to be helping it grow better and recover more rapidly from any damage)

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 06:40:01 PM »
These were the smaller sized Ichang papeda fruits I found


Oolie

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 10:10:16 PM »
The woody/resinous taste sounds similar to sudachi.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2020, 09:34:23 PM »
An update: I just found a nice big seed in one of the fruits that appears to be viable.
I am going to try to germinate it.

I was afraid for a while that Ichang papeda might have a tendency to not produce viable seeds (at least the cultivars that are available to us), from listening to the reports of others here, but my suspicion may be dispelled now.

In this fruit, I found one medium sized somewhat shriveled up seed, which when I peeled off the coat of the seed, it was obvious nothing inside the seed was viable. But there was also the other big sized seed that really looked like it should be viable.

It's interesting that these Ichang papeda fruits don't seem to have many seeds. That may be because there is no other genetically different citrus variety nearby to pollinate them. (That can result in very low seed count in some species/varieties of citrus)

I am also happy to find a big seed even in a small fruit that perhaps was not totally developed and as big as it should be.

Millet

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2020, 10:50:59 PM »
I have planted terrible looking seeds that have sprouted.  One of the worst looking seed was from a Saint Dominic Sour Orange.  That seedling is now 7 feed tall, and has fruited.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2020, 04:27:08 PM »
I'm thinking maybe in this northern climate, Ichang papeda fruits do not have time to grow to full size. The region around Portland/Olympia has already entered into the colder rainy season.
Keep in mind the early Fall season here has cooler/colder average temperatures than New England (although the temperatures show more stability with fewer very cold days).
If the fruits have only reached this size by this time in the year, then it is difficult to imagine them being able to grow any bigger.
This is from a big tree that should be fully mature enough.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2020, 07:32:25 PM »



kind of small, maybe not really completely developed, Ichang papeda fruit, cut open

Florian

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2020, 11:50:33 AM »
I'm thinking maybe in this northern climate, Ichang papeda fruits do not have time to grow to full size. The region around Portland/Olympia has already entered into the colder rainy season.
Keep in mind the early Fall season here has cooler/colder average temperatures than New England (although the temperatures show more stability with fewer very cold days).
If the fruits have only reached this size by this time in the year, then it is difficult to imagine them being able to grow any bigger.
This is from a big tree that should be fully mature enough.

I do not think it is the northern climate. My climate is cooler than Portland and has significantly fewer average hours of sun per day, yet the fruits grow to normal size and have no problem reaching maturity.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2020, 04:11:32 PM »
I do not think it is the northern climate. My climate is cooler than Portland and has significantly fewer average hours of sun per day, yet the fruits grow to normal size and have no problem reaching maturity.
What time of year do your fruits ripen, and typically reach maturity?

citrange

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 11:06:00 AM »
There seem to be a number of different forms of C. ichangensis, or perhaps many of them are actually hybrids.
My plant, growing outside in the UK, produces a few fruits the size of a small lemon but with absolutely no internal flesh.
The skin is pebbly and inside is just a mass of stringy pith embedded with large seeds. Nothing to taste!
I will be collecting the seeds when ripe, so no photo of inside yet this year, but here is fruit and leaf taken today.





Laaz

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2020, 05:06:06 PM »
These were the smaller sized Ichang papeda fruits I found

.
Sorry to say they are not Ichang papeda

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 12:57:35 AM »
Sorry to say they are not Ichang papeda
The leaves of the tree they came from definitely looked like Ichang papeda. The tree had a placard label clearly labelled "Citrus ichangensis", and the tree was growing at the top of a small mountain in Portland, Oregon.

I suppose it is possible the tree was originally grown from a seed that came from an Ichang papeda, so genetic recombination, or hybridization is a possibility. It definitely did not have any bad Poncirus trifoliata flavors. And I could even eat the peel, which would be highly unlikely if it was a poncirus hybrid.

Laaz

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2020, 06:15:59 AM »
That photo is clearly Yuzu...

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 08:50:27 AM »
I suppose it is possible the tree was originally grown from a seed that came from an Ichang papeda, so genetic recombination, or hybridization is a possibility. It definitely did not have any bad Poncirus trifoliata flavors. And I could even eat the peel, which would be highly unlikely if it was a poncirus hybrid.
[/quote]
What has Citrus trifoliata to do with Citrus ichangensis? Why should Ichang papeda have Poncirus flavors? But what you have found is no Ichanng papeda. There is a Variety with round fruits and a juicy Pulp, but the fruits of Var. "IVIA" look quite different. Your fruits look like Yuzu as Laaz remarked.

Ilya11

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2020, 01:12:46 PM »
Most probably a Yuzu but need a leaf photo to be sure. Ichangensis is very heterogeneous, could also be  CRC3931  that is rather globular in shape


In France we have C.ichangensis SRA241 that has also round fruits
Best regards,
                       Ilya

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2020, 08:21:01 PM »
Ichangensis is very heterogeneous, could also be  CRC3931  that is rather globular in shape
The pictures in that link do look very much like the type of fruits I saw.

I guess ichangensis fruit morphology can be very heterogeneous. Which seems very surprising, since I would have thought the available specimens came from one original source.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2020, 08:29:14 PM »
What has Citrus trifoliata to do with Citrus ichangensis? Why should Ichang papeda have Poncirus flavors?

Nothing. I thought Laaz was implying they were some sort of poncirus.

But what you have found is no Ichanng papeda. There is a Variety with round fruits and a juicy Pulp, but the fruits of Var. "IVIA" look quite different. Your fruits look like Yuzu as Laaz remarked.
The leaves on the tree clearly looked like Ichang papeda.

I have picked unripe and ripe Yuzu off the tree before. It's clearly not Yuzu.

Citradia

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2020, 10:12:39 PM »
Since Ichangensis hybridizes so readily, how does any true ichangensis exist in the wild? Iíve seen several specimens that are touted to be Ichang papeda but have different characteristics in leaf and fruit. If thereís different varieties of Ichang papeda, how do we know a variety is not just another hybrid genetically such as Ichang lemon or yuzu?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2020, 12:57:10 AM »
Since Ichangensis hybridizes so readily, how does any true ichangensis exist in the wild? Iíve seen several specimens that are touted to be Ichang papeda but have different characteristics in leaf and fruit. If thereís different varieties of Ichang papeda, how do we know a variety is not just another hybrid genetically such as Ichang lemon or yuzu?
That's a good point. However, I have grown several different seedlings of hybrids of Ichang papeda and none of them have leaf shapes that are quite like Ichang papeda (the leaf petioles are just not as large, the size of the two leaf lobes is not symmetrical).
The leaves of Yuzu and Ichang Lemon (I am growing both) obviously do not look like Ichang papeda.

(In fact the only leaves I have ever seen that look like Ichang papeda is Kaffir lime, but even that is only on adult plants and not on smaller seedlings)

SoCal2warm

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Re: Ichang papeda tasting / flavor
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2020, 01:11:28 AM »
Iíve seen several specimens that are touted to be Ichang papeda but have different characteristics in leaf and fruit. If thereís different varieties of Ichang papeda,
That's a good question, and I do not know the answer to that.

One possibility is there could be several different cultivars of Ichang papeda floating around, with slightly different shaped fruits. Maybe Ichang papeda was collected from different areas or different trees in China. I would imagine there could be a considerable amount of variability for this species in the wild.

Another possibility is genetic recombination could be responsible for the varying morphology. I mean if a tree pollinates itself, the genes could get rearranged. Maybe some types might even be triploid or tetraploid, I don't know.
If you grow a lemon from seed, not all the fruit from the offspring will look or taste the same as the parents.
Mutation (either seed or budsport mutation) could be one last possibility. Since this species produces all zygotic seed, the rate of seed mutation would be much higher (since only one sexual gamete cell has to mutate).
My best guess though would be some "cultivars" of this species may have resulted from inbreeding, if it was propagated from seed at some point. I don't know which would have been the original cultivar, however.

 

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