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Author Topic: Dark Surinam Cherry  (Read 387 times)

joe_OC

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Dark Surinam Cherry
« on: October 07, 2020, 04:09:41 PM »
Hi,

I have a red Surinam Cherry and wanted to add a dark one.  My understanding is that I want a grafted plant to ensure that it will be dark because seedlings from the dark plants can revert to being red.  Can someone confirm this? 


Thanks in advance,



Joe

achetadomestica

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 04:32:32 PM »
if you graft a known cultivar you have 100% a clone of the parent tree.

There was a study done at UF and 75% of the seedlings had dark fruit 25% had red fruit
when seeds came from dark fruit
I have sold many Zill's seeds and haven't received feedback yet? I did grow a dasyblasta
from seed and the fruit is 100% as they describe dasyblasta
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 07:58:45 PM by achetadomestica »

bsbullie

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2020, 06:24:57 PM »
Whike some may, they do not guarantee true to seed.  If you wantbto guarantee dark, you would need to graft it.

I have two grafted Zill Darks that I personally got from ZHPP...both fruit red...ooops...
- Rob

Kevin Jones

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2020, 08:11:28 PM »
Inversely... I got a Zill Dark seedling from Adam at FFF and it makes delicious large Black fruit.
It's a genetic crap-shoot with seedlings.

Kevin jones


Epicatt2

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2020, 08:15:39 PM »
I have had this same question about Eugenia uniflora reverting from black back to red fruit.

It does not make any sense to me that if you plant a seed and have it mature to produce black fruit that later that same plant would start to produce red fruit.

If a seed grows into a plant that produces black fruit then that plant should continue to produce black fruit for its lifetime.

But certainly seed from black fruit could produce a percentage of seedlings which would produce red fruit, but that's not the same as an established plant that regularly produces black fruit suddenly starting to produce red fruit.  That seems highly unlikely to me.  (Unless someone knows something quite different about how E. uniflora genetics work.)

Paul M.
==
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 08:17:34 PM by Epicatt2 »

bsbullie

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2020, 08:23:07 PM »
Mine didn't revert from bkack to red, it produced red fruit from day one.
- Rob

Kevin Jones

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2020, 10:08:28 PM »
I think when people use the word "Revert" they are saying that a seed from a tree that yields dark fruit, when planted, resulted in a tree that yields red fruit.
Plant 100 seeds from that dark fruiting plant. Grow them to maturity and you will likely see some diversity in the fruit color.
X% Reds and X% Darks.
Maybe X% In-betweens and possibly a few Mutants with retractible claws!
Cull for the best fruit characteristics and start grafting the ones you prefer.
I have no idea what the dominant fruit color trait is in Uniflora.
Dark fruit may be a recessive trait.
Bring on the Botanists!

Kevin Jones

« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 10:22:26 PM by Kevin Jones »

joe_OC

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2020, 12:43:45 AM »
if you graft a known cultivar you have 100% a clone of the parent tree.

There was a study done at UF and 75% of the seedlings had dark fruit 25% had red fruit
when seeds came from dark fruit
I have sold many Zill's seeds and haven't received feedback yet? I did grow a dasyblasta
from seed and the fruit is 100% as they describe dasyblasta

That's what Achetadomestica was saying with the University of Florida study.  Yes, when I use the word "revert" I meant the seed.  NOT a plant creating black fruit then red. 

Epicatt2

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 02:06:01 AM »
I brought this up because there does seem to be some confusion about this 'reverting' thingy.  In fact when I started looking for some for my new home I had asked at least two different nurserymen whether they sold plants of black-fruited Suriname Cherries and they said that no they did not sell them because they revert back to red.  [ ‽ ‽ ‽ ]

Scientifically and genetically that was a completely wrong idea concerning the makeup of an existing individual live plant.  That's as ignorant as if a nurseryman were to say that he doesn't sell grapefruit because they revert to lemons.  [sigh] 

And here, for a personal example:  We had a hedge of black-fruited Suriname Cherries along side of our house in Tampa where I grew up.  My folks bought the house back in 1955 and the hedge was already there then.  It was sold n 2003 and the new owner dug them all up and tossed them.  But that hedge produced black-fruited pitangas for just shy of 50 years without the approximately one dozen of those plants ever showing any sign of producng any red fruit.

Anyway, there must be a better way to explain a concept like 'reverting' so that what it actually means becomes clear.

I'm just sayin' . . .

Paul M.
=

joe_OC

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Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 04:09:50 PM »
Agreed. “Revert “ was a poor choice of words.

 

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